Challenger overdue in Mexico

sweeps

Undercarriage Acuator
Even in airplanes that perform well at the higher altitudes, if you’re doing 4,000fpm through the service ceiling - that’s a big problem. I’m currently flying the CL30, which means I don’t need a large Gulfstream pilot sized suitcase.

I’m not a Lear pilot, but they climb to altitude very well. My friends that fly them regularly see sea level to 10,000’ in two minutes or less.
Oh I’m aware lol, I don’t think I ever saw much more than 1000 fpm up high in the GIV when it was light, but it’s been a while so I can’t remember for sure. I was just wondering what planes he flew.
 

KLB

Well-Known Member
Even in airplanes that perform well at the higher altitudes, if you’re doing 4,000fpm through the service ceiling - that’s a big problem. I’m currently flying the CL30, which means I don’t need a large Gulfstream pilot sized suitcase.

I’m not a Lear pilot, but they climb to altitude very well. My friends that fly them regularly see sea level to 10,000’ in two minutes or less.
The CL35 is even better in the climb. There is a noticeable difference between the two. Both planes are total beast though. I'm back in the 300 (325) at the moment.

I have hit mountain wave in the the Challenger 350 climbing through F410 that was so bad that I was at idle climbing over 2000ft/min with the spoilers out all to keep from overspeeding at .83. Of course you get the huge loss of performance on the back end that required full power to keep it above .75. I could see things going really bad if I was lax in bringing the power up abruptly.
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
The CL35 is even better in the climb. There is a noticeable difference between the two. Both planes are total beast though. I'm back in the 300 (325) at the moment.

I have hit mountain wave in the the Challenger 350 climbing through F410 that was so bad that I was at idle climbing over 2000ft/min with the spoilers out all to keep from overspeeding at .83. Of course you get the huge loss of performance on the back end that required full power to keep it above .75. I could see things going really bad if I was lax in bringing the power up abruptly.
I heard a nice trick about that awhile back. Depending on how bad the wave is, leave the thrust up and just extend the spoilers. Depending on how bad the wave is, obviously you may have to reduce the thrust but can still leave it up a bit to stay spooled. I haven’t tried it yet, but I like the idea.

Edit: typo
 
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Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
I heard a nice truck about that awhile back. Depending on how bad the wave is, leave the thrust up and just extend the spoilers. Depending on how bad the wave is, obviously you may have to reduce the thrust but can still leave it up a bit to stay spooled. I haven’t tried it yet, but I like the idea.
Wouldn’t mountain wave to that degree be a situation where you’d just tell ATC you’re going for a ride and to give you some room so you don’t have to fight it so hard on the altitude? Kind of like deviating left/right for wx?
 

milleR

Well-Known Member
Wouldn’t mountain wave to that degree be a situation where you’d just tell ATC you’re going for a ride and to give you some room so you don’t have to fight it so hard on the altitude? Kind of like deviating left/right for wx?
Depends on how close to your service ceiling you were I'd think
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
Wouldn’t mountain wave to that degree be a situation where you’d just tell ATC you’re going for a ride and to give you some room so you don’t have to fight it so hard on the altitude? Kind of like deviating left/right for wx?
Sure. But that has nothing to do with that technique. Keeping the engines spooled keeps you out of trouble... For example, getting on the backside of the airspeed with unspooled engines.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
The CL35 is even better in the climb. There is a noticeable difference between the two. Both planes are total beast though. I'm back in the 300 (325) at the moment.

I have hit mountain wave in the the Challenger 350 climbing through F410 that was so bad that I was at idle climbing over 2000ft/min with the spoilers out all to keep from overspeeding at .83. Of course you get the huge loss of performance on the back end that required full power to keep it above .75. I could see things going really bad if I was lax in bringing the power up abruptly.
I'll take the overspeed vs the stall or getting so far behind that an abrupt descent is the only thing preventing stall. Spoilers out at/near ceiling is bad ju-ju.
 

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
Wouldn’t mountain wave to that degree be a situation where you’d just tell ATC you’re going for a ride and to give you some room so you don’t have to fight it so hard on the altitude? Kind of like deviating left/right for wx?
I dunno the challenger 601 at all but I'll bet that 2000 feet below your assigned altitude in alt hold will give you a big fat nose up flight director that must be ignored at all cost.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 

Skåning

Well-Known Member
I'll take the overspeed vs the stall or getting so far behind that an abrupt descent is the only thing preventing stall. Spoilers out at/near ceiling is bad ju-ju.
Gotta be careful with that, on the A319/20/21 in the flight levels, full spoilers to stowed can take 20+ seconds

Air France went on a wild ride a while back:


An Air France Airbus A340-300, registration F-GLZU performing flight AF-471 (dep Jul 21st) from Caracas (Venezuela) to Paris Charles de Gaulle (France), was enroute at FL350 about 145nm northeast of Point A Pitre (Guadeloupe) in night and instrument meteorological conditions at around 01:11Z (Jul 22nd) when the crew received an overspeed alert, the autopilot disconnected, the crew observed the indicated airspeeds had increased to 0.88 mach (MMO 0.86 mach) and 304 knots, the aircraft gradually increased its pitch attitude to 11 degrees and climbed with up to 5000 feet/minute up to FL380, reaching FL380 at 0.66 mach/ 205 KIAS - stall speed was computed at 202 KIAS - before the pitch attitude decreased again and the aircraft returned to normal flight parameters. The flight was continued to Paris, the aircraft reached Europe at FL380 and landed safely in Paris about 7.5 hours after the upset. No injuries occurred.
 
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Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
Gotta be careful with that, on the A319/20/21 in the flight levels, full spoilers to stowed can take 20+ seconds

Air France went on a wild ride a while back:

And, uh... during this excursion, what exactly did the pilots do? Sit there and look dashing in their crisply pressed uniforms??
 

Autothrust Blue

"I’d make a suggestion but you won’t listen”
I heard a nice trick about that awhile back. Depending on how bad the wave is, leave the thrust up and just extend the spoilers. Depending on how bad the wave is, obviously you may have to reduce the thrust but can still leave it up a bit to stay spooled. I haven’t tried it yet, but I like the idea.

Edit: typo
Did you hear this from a 175 check airman?
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
Honey Badger/Mountain Wave don't care 'bout your service ceiling. Just ride the badger.
That’s what I’m saying, if it’s that bad, wouldn’t you just set something maybe a touch below normal cruise power, pitch to maintain airspeed, and ride it out?
 

Autothrust Blue

"I’d make a suggestion but you won’t listen”
That’s what I’m saying, if it’s that bad, wouldn’t you just set something maybe a touch below normal cruise power, pitch to maintain airspeed, and ride it out?
Gosh, it's almost as if someone would write that down...say, perhaps, under Cockpit Operating Manual, Abnormal/Emergency Procedures, Severe Turbulence, which both tells you to do exactly that, and makes no mention of hanging the boards out because I wonder why?
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
I dunno the challenger 601 at all but I'll bet that 2000 feet below your assigned altitude in alt hold will give you a big fat nose up flight director that must be ignored at all cost.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Isn’t that more or less what we’re paid to do?
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
I had the worse mtn wave at FL 340, and at 320 on the descent for the better ride lower, the aircraft went from bug speed - 25 knots (right at VLS) and then all the way up to +30 knots above bug to the Vmax barber pole. Filed the report and had FOQA make me a video for the flight. Guy said it was definitely one of the sportiest ones he'd seen. It was interesting to say the least. Stuff like VS -1000 fpm and the aircraft just ain't goin down. Stuck at 200-300 fpm. I still have the video.
 
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