Challenger overdue in Mexico

gne in prog

Well-Known Member
That explains it ...

"The captain reported that he had a total of 12 to 14 hours of total flight time in the airplane type, including the time he trained in the simulator. The copilot would have had close to the same hours as the captain given that they attended flight training together. Neither flight crew member would have met the minimum flight time requirement of 25 hours to act as pilot-in-command under Part 135. The accident flight was conducted under Part 91, and therefore, the 25 hours requirement did not apply to this portion of their trip. Nevertheless, the additional flight time would have increased the crew's familiarity with the airplane and its limitation and likely improved their decision-making during the unstabilized approach. "
I don’t think it does explain it.
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
Oddly, people who fly Aspen / DMA (Designated Mountainous Airport) service at the Whiz are also...special.
I only did it when it was limited to the DEN base, but in total I flew ASE about 4 years in both seats. Not sure what you mean by “special”, but I thought the crews were awesome! My CAs were almost all super chill, excellent pilots, and very fun to fly with. When I became an ASE CA, my FOs were also very sharp and also a lot of fun to be around. It was without question the best place/most fun place to be at SkyWest at the time.

I also ended up with quite a few good interview stories, both operational and customer service. I certainly was glad to have a door, some of the PAX were indeed “special”. By far the worst one were the tourists who thought they were someone important but weren’t. Almost all of the locals were great, and very understanding when we ended up diverting GJT (which was frequent).
 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
The Aspen crash was because the charter client came to the cockpit and told they crew they had to land, despite aircraft ahead of them missing their approaches, and night falling. The client was hosting a dinner party, and landing at alternate Rifle would make them late. This had nothing to do with “slight of hand” - it was an • client that exerted pressure on the crew.
Um. Ok. You do understand that's precisely what overly-hungry / under-qualified crews tend to do, right? Succumb to pressure.
 
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Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
Has that ever happened? I used to fly the CRJ 700
into some pretty bad ice in the mountains, and never saw (during post-flight walkaround) or felt (during flight) ice collect on the tail.

A deep stall is definitely something that can happen with those challengers though.
It should be noted that the good news about deep stalls is that they are always preceded by shallow stalls (with the exception of canard designs).
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Man those altitude changes between the middle 3 too... definitely not light chop
Those are some serious variations for that altitude and that airframe.

My last airplane had a service ceiling of FL510. However it would only ever get there with fumes in the tanks & no interior. Most days it would go to FL430, and only a few occasions did we go to FL470 to top weather.

My current ride goes to FL450, and it does it very well. Often times it’ll go sea level to four-fife-oh in 25 minutes with about 500fpm-1000fpm towards the end. In either airplane I’d need new underwear if it was doing 4,000fpm through the ceiling of FL450.


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sweeps

Undercarriage Acuator
Those are some serious variations for that altitude and that airframe.

My last airplane had a service ceiling of FL510. However it would only ever get there with fumes in the tanks & no interior. Most days it would go to FL430, and only a few occasions did we go to FL470 to top weather.

My current ride goes to FL450, and it does it very well. Often times it’ll go sea level to four-fife-oh in 25 minutes with about 500fpm-1000fpm towards the end. In either airplane I’d need new underwear if it was doing 4,000fpm through the ceiling of FL450.


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What’s your current ride, GIV? Haha. Also which one was going to 51 on fumes? A Lear?
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
What’s your current ride, GIV? Haha. Also which one was going to 51 on fumes? A Lear?
Lear for sure. The 60 is approved up to FL510. We touched FL430 once and that was just to show me why we don’t. The margin between VMO & stall are extremely close. Any turbulence and you’re hitting one or the other. Even at FL410 in the 60 wasn’t very fun when it got bumpy.

I know some of the newer Globals go into the mid 40s no problem
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
What’s your current ride, GIV? Haha. Also which one was going to 51 on fumes? A Lear?
Even in airplanes that perform well at the higher altitudes, if you’re doing 4,000fpm through the service ceiling - that’s a big problem. I’m currently flying the CL30, which means I don’t need a large Gulfstream pilot sized suitcase.

I’m not a Lear pilot, but they climb to altitude very well. My friends that fly them regularly see sea level to 10,000’ in two minutes or less.
 
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MaRiO FDZ

Han Solo is NOT dead!!
By no means am I saying this as speculation on this particular incident, but getting a deviation around weather isn't always as easy as it is in the US.
Yes it is. Down here in Mexico just tell atc deviating for weather and they’ll go “roger, report when returning to airway or next fix”
 

MaRiO FDZ

Han Solo is NOT dead!!
I think you'd be surprised at how many people don't know how to work the radar.
I’m not sure if that’s the case, remember atc radar down here isn’t as precise so he may have deviated but the track we grt from the US is not updated accordingly.

Who knows. I’m sad about it, FO we were mates at a former job, I qas flying a 414 and he was in a Cherokee for the same owner.
 

MaRiO FDZ

Han Solo is NOT dead!!
The Challenger only requires one pilot? And “pending” pilot certificate number on the flight plan?
probabky Lazy dispatch that didn’t put the certificate in. From what I’ve seen, the certificates were good.

Have we determined who owns/operates this Challenger? 135? Domicile? Seems to be pretty quiet given the fact that 14 people died.
Probably a 135 Gig, but I wouldn’t sweat on it if it was a 91 trying to skim a 135.

Has that ever happened? I used to fly the CRJ 700
into some pretty bad ice in the mountains, and never saw (during post-flight walkaround) or felt (during flight) ice collect on the tail.

A deep stall is definitely something that can happen with those challengers though.
That’s what some think down here. Either that or Coffin corner victim.

The N-number comes back to a generic registered agent in the US but its flight history shows a lot of flying to, from, and around Mexico.

I dunno.
There a thousands of N regs down here for the simple reason that Aviation in Mexico exists DESPITE DGAC. Most owners, trying to avoid beaureocratic nonsense - and if the airplane flies mostly to the US - then they prefer to deal with FAA every single time. As an XB they’re not saving a penny in taxes, so why bother do 50 extra paperwork hours and money when you can have the exact same thing in an N registration with a fraction of the inconvenience.

On the other hand, big rich corporations leave their aircraft XA reg for Tax return purposes.

Yes, but....... there are folks in foreign countries operating N registered planes with almost no oversight on the operations. I have seen this a lot in the Middle East.

Typically they use the N registration to ease entry and overflight issues. Bermuda and Aruba offer the same services. Sometimes ownership in their respective countries can cause problems.
Not entirely true. They may not have FSDOs as such, but DGAC is VERY esceptical of any wrongdoing in N rega and snitch to FAA right away.

Not to mention the less US landings CBP has in their records, the deeper the ramp check will go next time the plane Sniffs US territories.
 

MaRiO FDZ

Han Solo is NOT dead!!
It's getting more interesting. :stir:

Press has been all over the PIC once they saw the “pending” Certificate number. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was more dirt throwing.

I did know the FO personally and he was clean, so I’m not sure how truthful this is.
 
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