C402 runs out of fuel over St. Petersburg

milleR

Well-Known Member
#22
We had a 402C lose both engines due to fuel starvation when I was at Cape Air, but that was caused by a stuck fuel selector.
 

Flyinthrew

Well-Known Member
#23
It's a HUGE problem in the cabin class twin community. Almost once a month someone is posting on the Twin Cessna owner's forum about Jet A being loaded on their 421 or 340. Most of us are now either watching them fuel every time or using the paper test (dip a strip of paper into the fuel tanks, and if it leaves oily residue after a minute, it's Jet A). After there were several accidents from misfuelings, the community figured out quick that the fuel strainer is just about useless. When Jet A is mixed with Avgas, you usually can't tell from looking at the strainer.
Im a little ignorant here, so please educate me. All of my Jet-A is single point. All of my 100LL is gravity. Is the gravity nozzle for Jet-A not a different size and shape from a the 100LL? Like shouldn't the Jet-A nozzle not fit in the standard 3-4 inch hole that 100LL aircraft have?
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Socialist Pig Member
#24
Im a little ignorant here, so please educate me. All of my Jet-A is single point. All of my 100LL is gravity. Is the gravity nozzle for Jet-A not a different size and shape from a the 100LL? Like shouldn't the Jet-A nozzle not fit in the standard 3-4 inch hole that 100LL aircraft have?
Nope, it's not like a car with different nozzles with diesel and unleaded.
 

learhawkerbe400

Well-Known Member
#30
Nah, I generally just ignore it. No fireworks for you to see. :) As Derg says, sometimes the horse just won't drink the water.
Good idea. I browse beechtalk occasionally and most of those guys are complete morons. It’s not even fun to troll them.

Most of the owner/operator guys there also have a strange jealousy/hatred towards pro pilots. Most rich people are weird.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Socialist Pig Member
#31
Good idea. I browse beechtalk occasionally and most of those guys are complete morons. It’s not even fun to troll them.

Most of the owner/operator guys there also have a strange jealousy/hatred towards pro pilots. Most rich people are weird.
I tried briefly on the Mooney forum when I first bought my Mooney a few years ago. Just basic concepts like how to fly a safe approach speed. They were constantly passing around crazy ideas like flying every approach at 90 knots because "the plane just likes that speed." When I mentioned that perhaps these crazy rules of thumb were why Mooney drivers were constantly going off the end of runways, and perhaps something like 1.3Vso might be more appropriate, you'd think I'd dropped my fly and pissed on the Virgin Mary or something. So I decided to just let them get themselves in trouble instead. More hull losses just means my hull value goes up, after all. Supply and demand. :)
 

atpduck

Well-Known Member
#32
Although I will add, fueling at FBOs has gone seriously downhill since I was getting my ratings. Mistakes are caught nonstop. Almost all the ramp guys are minimum wage or close to it employees, and they aren't doing the job to be close to airplanes like they were back in the day. These aren't wannabe pilots trying to make money to pay for hours. They're just regular low paid hourly workers like you'd find anywhere else. When you had airplane nerds working these jobs, they knew their stuff. They knew that a 402 was different than a King Air and needed different fuel, and they knew the difference between a tip tank and a wing tank. Now I have to keep an eye on them every time to make sure they don't put Jet A in my 421.
I have had some close Jet A in the 421 calls myself. To be fair a 421 does look similar to a Conquest I to non airplane person.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Socialist Pig Member
#35
To be fair, they’re identical. But there’s like, what, 50 C425’s flying around the country?
They're not exactly identical. Cabin is a bit different. But the biggest difference is, you know, the the turbine engines that any decent fueler should be able to recognize. If you don't have big exhaust stacks coming out the sides, it's not a PT-6.
 

atpduck

Well-Known Member
#36
To be fair, they’re identical. But there’s like, what, 50 C425’s flying around the country?
The most notable difference between a 421 and 425 is the horizontal stabilizer. The 421’s is straight, the 425’s horizontal stab has a slight upward “v” shape.
 

milleR

Well-Known Member
#38
They're not exactly identical. Cabin is a bit different. But the biggest difference is, you know, the the turbine engines that any decent fueler should be able to recognize. If you don't have big exhaust stacks coming out the sides, it's not a PT-6.
Agreed, but as has been pointed out (and I’ve seen first hand) most fuelers don’t seem to have any idea what a “turboprop” is, much less how to identify one.

The most notable difference between a 421 and 425 is the horizontal stabilizer. The 421’s is straight, the 425’s horizontal stab has a slight upward “v” shape.
No kidding, I never noticed that dihedral. Thanks.
 
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