C-182 High Performance?

stultus

New Member
I'm just about to take my private checkride...if the WX ever clears up here in sunny SoCal
This summer I hope to fly home to visit family and figure I can offset the cost of the ticket by hitting my uncle up for a flight or two in his 182. I don't have a high performance endorsement, will I need one or is the 182 less than 200 hp?

I predominantly fly a C150 (though I have flown a PA-28R twice) is it unwise to jump into a faster plane with relatively few hours? Or will an hour or two with an instructor or two do the trick?
 

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
The 182 is a high performance plane so you will need the appropriate endorsement for that. I know you will be a new private pilot, but if you are found competent by a flight instructor and he gives you the high performance endorsement, I see no reason why you shouldn't to go see your family in your uncle's 182.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Yes, you will need a high performance endorsement (FAR 61.31f). You may, however, log it without one if you are sole manipulator of the controls and he is with you (betcha that generates a 10-post debate).

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I predominantly fly a C150 (though I have flown a PA-28R twice) is it unwise to jump into a faster plane with relatively few hours? Or will an hour or two with an instructor or two do the trick?

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A 182 isn't a particularly hard airplane to fly (very stable in flight), but its quite a big step up from a 150- theres a bit more going on. Its also going to be a lot heavier on the controls than a 150 (and I do mean, A LOT). I'd say AT LEAST an hour of ground school, and two or more hours of flight with an instructor. Its really up to the instructor though-and whenever they feel you're ready. Also, what year is your uncle's 182? Some of the newer ones (our "S" model) seem to give people some problems with high speed directional control (i.e., just after landing, and just prior to rotation). 182's are a lot of fun to fly...have fun!



Oh yeah, and if it even so much as thinks about porpoising on landing, GO AROUND! A prop strike is waaaaaay more likely in a 182 than a 152/172.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Have a lot of 182 time Farewellbooth? Something you'd like to add? Or neither...

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At least an hour of ground to upgrade to a 182 seems a little much.

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I dont think its expecting too much for someone getting signed off to fly a new airplane to know all of the systems and avoinics that are in it. Sorry, but you're not getting my signature on a H.P. endorsement unless we discuss, on the ground, and at a minimum: the engine, prop/governor, landing gear (if an RG), autopilot/avionics, power settings, V-speeds, and procedures (normal and emergency). Saves money, but more importantly, allows you to concentrate on flying the airplane. If thats too much for somebody, they can find another instructor to do it.

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And striking props on tricycle gear? wow

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Yes, actually. If you believe you can't have a prop strike in a tricycle gear aircraft, you may be in for a rude awakening someday. And 182's seem to be more prone to it than 152's/172's.
 

Alchemy

Partner, Ally, Friend
My CFI gave me the high perf and complex sign offs after 6 hours of dual in the 182RG, no formal ground instruction given (just the usual pre and post flight breifings). Part of this six hours was a cross country that I had to do for my commercial anyway. All of my previous time was in 150's, 152's, and 172's.

Even though I got the endorsements at 6 hours, insurance requires 10 hours of dual or 40 hours total in type to rent. He went ahead and gave me the endorsements so I could log the remaining 4 hours of the required 10 as PIC (this gets into the whole issue about logging that eatsleepfly brought up, but my CFI felt it was best not to log the first 6 hours as PIC so I didn't argue, even if it is technically legal do so).
 

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
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And striking props on tricycle gear? wow

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farewellbooth,

actually it does happen a lot. I haven't flown a 182 but I heard it was nose heavy. The 182 my old flight school had a prop strike because of the pilot's miscalculation on how heavy the nose was when he went to flare. Do a search on the ntsb website, you will find a lot of prop strikes in the 182.
 

I_Money

Moderator
I think an hour of ground sounds very reasonable. When I got my high performance sign of I had over an hour of ground, and I already had my complex. We reviewed a lot more then just the variable pitch prop, as I remember we reviewed basic pressuration systems, and turbo chargers (I am having a mental block on what the correct name is). You are not just getting checked out in a 182, but are being signed off to fly far more complicated aircraft with many more systems.

You will also have to consider getting insured on it, now I do not know the limitations of owners insurance however it woudl not surprise me higher performance aircraft will have some time requirement.

I have only flown a 206, and was flying frequently in a 172RG and can honestly say it was quite similar. From a 152 it is heavier, and faster, and will not be as forgiving (you will have to sharpen your skills). Just focus on finishing your license, and take you time getting checked out in a 182. It is a much mroe airplane and will be the first of many that will bite, if you mishandle it.
 

aloft

New Member
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At least an hour of ground to upgrade to a 182 seems a little much.

And striking props on tricycle gear? wow

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What we're talking about here is the ground instruction required by FAR Pt 61.31(f) for a high performance endorsement--a bit more involved than jumping from a C-152 to a C-172. Systems and use of constant speed prop, cowl flaps, etc in less than an hour would be suspect in my mind. I sat through 8 hours of a Civil Air Patrol high performance aircraft class that covered all that, plus use of engine analyzers, aeromedical factors (hypoxia, use of supplemental oxygen, etc) and much more; quite a lot of stuff, too much essential stuff for just an hour.

As for the handling characteristics of the C-182, probably the most comical segment of AOPA's "Ups and Downs of Takeoffs and Landings" video is a dude in a C-182 endlessly porpoising his landing, including landing on the nosewheel pretty hard--a quick way to an expensive firewall repair bill.
 

farwellbooth

Well-Known Member
I've flown the 150, 52, 72, 82, and 210. The most noticeable differences to me are the increase in left turning tendency, increase in stability and the heavier flight controls, respectively. You really have to increase your right rudder pressure in the bigger planes.

My instructor spent 20 minutes max. with me (an average preflight time) prior to flying the 182 which was sufficient. We're all learning in different environments and that's what's so great, the diversity... We can spend a lifetime talking about the horizontal component of lift, whether students should wear uniforms, smoking policies etc. but at some point I gotta fly the plane. I didn't mean to jump on your guy's teaching styles... If Stultus goes up with his uncle I'd say chat a little about the 82 before they go. If his uncle lets him solo his plane, sure some ground school and hours would be in order.

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Farewellbooth

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farewellbooth

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Gentlemen do you see an e after the r in my username?
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Just to give you an idea of insurance requirements-

At the FBO I work at, we typically require 100 hrs. and an instrument rating to get checked out in the 182S. To get checked out in the 182RG its that plus 25 hrs. in the S. We make exceptions, but it really depends on the individual. But someone going straight from the 152 to the 182? Not a chance. I don't come up with the requirements- the insurance company and my boss dictate both that, and how I'm supposed to do checkouts.


P.S.- Sorry for misspelling your username.
 

Sprint100

Well-Known Member
Don't be in such a rush to take on more responsibility. Make sure you get the knowledge and some hands on. I wouldn't feel comfortable until I have had at least 8 hours worth of training, and I can really comprehend afterwards.
 

stultus

New Member
hmmm...thanks guys for giving me a lot to chew on. My FBO doesn't have any 182s so it makes it difficult to go up and get some practice in one. So, I can log flight in the plane if I'm the sole manipulator of the controls even if I'm not endorsed? Sounds kinda sketchy... I'd assume that my uncle will not let me take his plane up without him in it...I'm not sure where that puts me in terms of insurance.

As far as the ground is concerned, I guess I can always try to find a 182 POH and start reading away...I don't think it'll be that hard.

I was gonna have my PPL checkride today but it got cancelled for the 2nd time due to WX--June Gloom here in SoCal. I haven't been able to fly much lately, at least outside of the pattern, and my instructor suggested maybe that I go up with him and experience some IMC and start to get the feel for instrument procedures...maybe we can do that in an Arrow...though a complex/high performance plane in IMC is probably biting off quite a bit at this point in my flying career. I guess that's what instructors are there in the right seat for.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
An Arrow isn't high performance (needs to be OVER 200 HP), just complex.

OK, the logging thing: You get your private. You and your uncle go flying. While you're up, he lets you take the controls. You can log that time as PIC because you are sole manipulator of the controls and appropriately rated in category and class (airplane, single engine land). He can log it as PIC because he is acting as PIC (because he is the only one appropriately endorsed). Nothing sketchy about it, however it won't look good to a company/airline if you have 150 hours in a 182 before you even got your H.P. signoff. Use good judgement. You cannot fly the airplane solo, or while acting as PIC unless you have the H.P. endorsement, and the insurance company and your uncle says OK.

Now, about 7 people will consider trying to dispute what I just said. To them I say save some bandwidth and go look it up, or search through previous posts. The subject has been beaten to death.
 

I_Money

Moderator
Where are you flying of out of? I know Lenair has a 182 at SNA. It is a new one and the info is:

2000 Cessna 182 N130ME FULL IFR, GPS, 4PAX $166 $156 123TT/10 Complex

I have not flown this airplane but from what I hear it is a very nice ship!
 

av8sean

New Member
I just did the high performance/complex endorsement this week in a C210 (285hp/6 pax), and had very little trouble picking everything up within a few hours. In fact, with the autopilot, it's actually easier to fly straight and level.

-Sean
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
aw, come on EatSleep,
You know its true.. all threads lead back to one topic... logging time as sole manipulator
:):)

Agreed though. After much deliberation and reading posts and talking to people and what-not, I have decided to always log whats legal to log, but not to use it as a shortcut or crutch to building time
 

sbav8r

New Member
Stultus,

Your at Santa Paula with CP aviation? I think that is one of their 152's you have.
 

mastermags

Well-Known Member *giggity*
So if I go flying with a guy in a tailwheel airplane and am the sole manipulator of the controls as a private pilot (but no tailwheel endorsement), I can still log the time as PIC? Ive never quite understood the rules here!
 

sbav8r

New Member
Yes you can log the time you were sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time however, you can not act as PIC of the aircraft. Confused yet? If not let me really give you a good one.
If you don't have a complex endorsement you can still take a checkride with a DPE in which you are acting as PIC.
 
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