Buying Turbine time

JoeBlow

Well-Known Member
I read all the negitives about programs that sell turbine time and how one is taking the place of a pilot who was getting paid as SIC in the right seat. From what I know, is that any aircraft the company places you in will be certified for one crew operations (the plane only requires a captain to operate). Therefore, no one is or will be replaced in the right seat. As for how the aircraft is certified for one crew operations under part 135, I'm not 100% if it has to do with the aircrafts weight being 12,500lbs or less or if the aircraft is certified to operate as a one crew operation under an autopilot or if the two (weight and autopilot) can be utilized together. For instance, can the aircraft weight be over 12,500lbs and have an autopilot to be certified as a one crew operation. Also, if the captain utilizes the auto pilot for the entire trip, the person in the right seat cannot log SIC time. So if the captain or the company wants to be jerks, they can operate the autopilot the entire time building process. If anyone has information or would like to comment on this subject please do so. I am just sick of how people preceive those who whant to buy turbine time as scabs and how they are taking jobs away from those in the right seat when infact they are not. As for the Airstage lll program at ATA, no one has even entered the program yet since it is so new. Someone should inform ACA that they are not suppose to like people who by turbine time; I don't think they know yet since they just entered into an agreement with ATA.

PS. does any one have information on Alpine Air's First Officer Program with the purchase of turbine time?
 

JoeBlow

Well-Known Member
When did your friend finish, how long did it take him, what aircraft did he fly, did he enjoy the time with Alpine Air, what airline did he get hired by, how much total and multi time did he have upon getting hired, and did he get hired recently?
Inquiring minds want to know!
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Exactly how is buying turbine time going to help you? I dare say it's not the fact that it's turbine that's essential, but the fact that someone else hired you to fly a turbine aircraft that makes that time attractive.

Take GIA for example...when in an interview and the interviewer see that you have 250.0 hours of B-1900 time, does anyone honestly expect him to be impressed?

Just food for thought....not trying to flame. There is something to be said for paying your dues...you'll be a better pilot for it! And, possibly, a better person....

Good luck in whatever you decide,

Chunk
 

JoeBlow

Well-Known Member
I guess If one is able to pay for turbine training they should be frowned upon. After all, they would only be trying to improve their piloting skills, skills that an airline may look at as being helpful for an individual to pass the training that a new hire must go through, the training where so many wash out. If one has purchased Beech 1900 time and the airline operates the 1900, the airline now has reduced the risk of losing money from that person washing out. Experience can only help. Reguardless of how much one has of turbine time or even total time, it has nothing to do with what they know or how well they fly. Some who have 2000hrs may not know as much or fly as well as one who has 600hrs. There shouldn't be anything wrong with someone trying to improve their resume, and multi time is big on a resume. Buying turbine time sould be the same as buy time in a seminole. If one buys 200hrs in a seminole and flys cross country to build multi time, shouldn't that be frowned upon since they didn't earn that multi time as an instructor. It sound like if one doesn't build time like everyone else and pay their dues like everyone else then they are $h%t. If one does an intership during college with an airline and is able to earn a job with that airline with reduced flight hours, is that person no good too? I think some are just jealous of those who don't have to spend years as a flight instructor or not having to become a flight instructor at all. More power to that individual!
 

VJPilot

New Member
This was back during the hiring spree of 2000 she got hired by SkyWest. I think she bought time in the BE-99 she had all her flight certificates CFI, CFI-I and MEI but she was really impatient and decided to buy time, really smart move. She was able to get on with SkyWest with the minimum total somewhere around 1000 hours but had over 300 multi time they only require 100. She just recently upgraded to the CRJ.
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
The difference between buying the seminole time is that you aren't depriving another pilot from a paying gig.

Take a look here to see what a community of true professionals think about Gulfstream, PFT, etc. etc. This thread went on for FOUR MONTHS! I think that shows the passionate disgust for PFT among Pro's...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3705&perpage=25&highlight=gulfstream&pagenumber=1

Sounds like you've already made up your mind, though...

Chunk
 

JoeBlow

Well-Known Member
I think you need to read what I wrote the first time, and that is companies that are selling turbine time like ATA through Ameriflight are selling time in an aircraft that is certified for one pilot. So if one buys time in a Beech 99 that is certified for one pilot, then how is it that a job is being taken away if no one is sitting in the right seat to begin with. Please go back and read what I wrote the first time and do some research; I believe that you will find many part 135 operators like Ameriflight and Airnet operate turboprops that are certified for only one pilot so as to cut costs.
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
So how do you plan on logging this flight time? The only way you can as SIC is if an SIC is required by FAR's or by the approved ops manual for that 121/135 operation. In an approved one man show, you can't log SIC. If it is a two-man show, you have taken someone else's job! Can't have it both ways....

Go read that thread that I linked for you...I'm not trying to hurt you here, just answering your question and trying to keep you from labeling yourself as "PFTer".

Frankly, I don't give a damn, just don't take a job away from someone who's been busting their ass the traditional, proven way.

Chunk
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Chunk is correct.

My buddy flew a King Air, which is a single-pilot turboprop under 12,500.

If we flew part-91, I could legally log PIC time when I physically flew the aircraft. However I didn't because I didn't want the liability of being asked about systems during any subsequent interview - airlines always do this.

If he flew part-135, well I couldn't log it because I hadn't gotten my part-135 certificate from the FSDO allowing me to log PIC during a part-135 operation.

But then his 135 certificate allowed him to fly as PIC. So I really couldn't log SIC under a part-135 certificate that didn't require a SIC.

I could be all screwed up about this, but I know if I was interviewing a pilot to fly my jet and I saw that he had a logbook full of SIC time in a Piper Lance that he paid $10,000 to obtain, I'm going to laugh his butt out of my office.
 

JoeBlow

Well-Known Member
Chunk and Doug thank you for your reply. As I mentioned in the starting post, I wasn't 100% sure how it worked. All I do know is from what I have investigated and to preceive it as if one was flying the right seat of a turboprop that is certified for one crewmember then if a person was sitting in the right seat flying that they would be able to log SIC. Now I called ATA to find out how one would be able to log SIC in a turboprop flying with Ameriflight, and he said that the aircraft have autopilot and are certified for a one crew operation. If the Captain decided to turn the auto pilot on, the person paying for the time in the right seat would not be able to log SIC and if it was off one could log SIC. That is what my main discussion was about. I know that with Gulfstream International since they fly under part 121 the person paying to be in the right seat is taking the job of qualified pilot and how wrong that is, but I was trying to get to the bottom of the part 135 operation selling time in the right seat. I don't plan or have I stated that I plan to buy turbine time or from one of these companies. If one could buy turbine time, log it in his logbook and not take away a job then I don't see a problem. Now if companies like ATA are lying then that should be grounds for a serous lawsuit.

PS. Chunk, thank you for the link
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
You can log it if he turns off the autopilot? Wow....what's the number? I want to call, ask them how I'd log it and laugh really, really loud when they tell me that!


When it comes to flight schools, watch your @zz.

G'Luck,

Chunk
 

VJPilot

New Member
JoeBlow man that is one ugly picture under your username! My girlfriend ought to sue you, because I could no longer get an erection after seeing that!
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Vic man, you should reword your last post....I thought you meant your girlfriend would sue because Joe Blow used her photo....

Chunk
 

VJPilot

New Member
Whoa, if she looked like that I'd probably shoot myself or volunteer for another 6 month tour in Afganistan! Yeah the wording on my last post was messed up the picture distracted me. I can't really hang around this forum too long I'm afraid I might go sterile. I'm hoping that's just a prank picture and not anyone that Joeblow actually knows or cares about.
 

Ysifly

New Member
Food for thought is buying B-1900 time the same as buying C-172 time or whatever. If you are using it to better your skills,knowledge and experience. As well as training you on different systems. When you look at it as 70.00 dollars and hour it looks quite attractive. Just wondering I don't see the difference. But then again I am not hired or hiring anyone.
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Okay....

There isn't a chance in hell of getting time in a 1900 for 70/hr, let alone in a non-revenue training only non-PFT situation.

Look, just don't do it! You're jumping in line....taking someone else's job...maybe someday someone will take yours...

Instruct. Haul checks. Tow banners. Do something to build time and experience. You'll thank me (and everyone else advising against PFT) someday.

Chunk
 

Ysifly

New Member
I was just wondering. I do not plan on buying time. I'm doing it the old fashion way instructing and ferry flights. But I guess I know were you stand.
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Sorry for the vent...just get frustrated by dudes who say, "I know, but"...

I used to be one of them!

Chunk
 
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