Budgeting / Cash Flow

Bear

Well-Known Member

Bear

Well-Known Member
Family budgeting, for one or for a family has been mentioned as necessary in our financial life. Recently in "Living Paycheck to Paycheck," essential budgeting was stressed, in other threads the devastation of an unexpected out of pocket medical care bill, even with health insurance, is almost impossible to budget for. A search of this forum mentions little of how forum members cover their medical care costs. Active military svc members and families, as with retired military there is TRICARE ins; Medicare for retirees; varied company offered policies; the Affordable Care Act; Medicaid for some; the VA for some vets; and then for many Americans no coverage, just out of pocket cash visits. So I pose the question, what medical insurance coverage do you have for self and or your family if any? Is it adequate, what's your preference, etc. and where should the nation be moving? Some Progressive have pushed for universal care, some conservatives love tax deferred health savings accts, the right and obligation of shopping for your care plus other features to reduce total gov't costs !!

This was an early side-by-side comparison of Obamacare and the GOP’s replacement plans http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obamacare-repeal/
 

thegriffinpages

AKA "Icicles"
Family budgeting, for one or for a family has been mentioned as necessary in our financial life. Recently in "Living Paycheck to Paycheck," essential budgeting was stressed, in other threads the devastation of an unexpected out of pocket medical care bill, even with health insurance, is almost impossible to budget for. A search of this forum mentions little of how forum members cover their medical care costs. Active military svc members and families, as with retired military there is TRICARE ins; Medicare for retirees; varied company offered policies; the Affordable Care Act; Medicaid for some; the VA for some vets; and then for many Americans no coverage, just out of pocket cash visits. So I pose the question, what medical insurance coverage do you have for self and or your family if any? Is it adequate, what's your preference, etc. and where should the nation be moving? Some Progressive have pushed for universal care, some conservatives love tax deferred health savings accts, the right and obligation of shopping for your care plus other features to reduce total gov't costs !!

This was an early side-by-side comparison of Obamacare and the GOP’s replacement plans http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obamacare-repeal/
I currently have United Healthcare.

This past summer I went to the ER with a Gallbladder Attack, and a week later had Gallbladder Removal Surgery.

I'm fortunate I had insurance as I had MOST of it covered, but still had to pay some out of pocket.

Had I not had insurance, I would have owed 50K (ish).
 

A Life Aloft

Well-Known Member
Your employment policy ? a choice of coverage? meds covered? generally, your ins policy costs as % of your income? a co-pay?
None of this is any of your business. Why do you even care in the first place? You have never and currently do not work in aviation or anything even aviation related. You're just a troll cutting and pasting a bunch of inane, worthless bull chit all over this forum. Get a life.
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
I currently have United Healthcare.

This past summer I went to the ER with a Gallbladder Attack, and a week later had Gallbladder Removal Surgery.

I'm fortunate I had insurance as I had MOST of it covered, but still had to pay some out of pocket.

Had I not had insurance, I would have owed 50K (ish).
It's worth mentioning that sometimes it might be in your best interest to simply refuse paying for the treatment you received. $50k isn't affordable by any stretch of the imagination.
 

A Life Aloft

Well-Known Member
It's worth mentioning that sometimes it might be in your best interest to simply refuse paying for the treatment you received. $50k isn't affordable by any stretch of the imagination.
That's brilliant advice. Receive good medical treatment which saves your life and then refuse to pay. Screw over the hospital and leave them holding the bag, have them sue you, take you to collections, garnish your wages and ruin your credit. Yeah, that's the responsible and ethical thing to do.
 
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ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
That's brilliant advice. Receive good medical treatment which saves your life and then refuse to pay. Screw over the hospital and leave them holding the bag, have them sue you, take you to collections, garnish your wages and ruin your credit. Yeah, that's the responsible and ethical thing to do. lol
You're not screwing over the hospital. That's not how it works.

They charge wayyyyyyy more than it actually costs for a procedure. By refusing to pay, they'll renegotiate. If you have zero dollars this is often a solid bet as opposed to trying to pay for $50k.

Literally the only thing it does it get sold to a collection agency for pennies on the dollar. Take the hit on your credit, then negotiate with the agency to get it down to a more reasonable cost or monthly payment if you feel guilty about it.
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
An acquaintance of mine got cancer. He ended up getting a bill for something like $250,000. He was a single float plane pilot and he had already spent his savings (which was well over a year) paying for his living expenses when he couldn't fly. He had no wife or kids, so no one else to share with. So he refused to pay, and the hospital caved and renegotiated to about $50,000 by the time the dust settled, which he is subsequently paying. Why wouldn't you do this?

Look at your bill next time you go to the hospital - last time I went insurance covered most of it, but they charged me something like $20 for a bandaid. That's absurd. Don't pay that.

The hospitals are charging you far far more than the actual treatments cost, don't fall for it.
 

A Life Aloft

Well-Known Member
You're not screwing over the hospital. That's not how it works.They charge wayyyyyyy more than it actually costs for a procedure. By refusing to pay, they'll renegotiate. If you have zero dollars this is often a solid bet as opposed to trying to pay for $50k.
Literally the only thing it does it get sold to a collection agency for pennies on the dollar. Take the hit on your credit, then negotiate with the agency to get it down to a more reasonable cost or monthly payment if you feel guilty about it.
Of course hospitals have no overhead and operational costs to worry about. They also have no intention of ever buying any new medical equipment either or performing any upgrades and maintenance. And let's not concern ourselves about that financial responsibility form that you agreed to and signed before your treatment. Who needs good credit anyways.

So you would have no issue with your employer negotiating down your salary instead of paying what he owes you after you have worked for him, because he feels you are expecting/charging wayyyyyyy more than you are worth and he can find someone else to do your job cheaper. Then you can just negotiate your pay with him. Do you also purchase a vehicle, sign a financial contract, take the car home and then suddenly decide you want to renegotiate the contract and not pay as much for the car?

Hospitals have various programs available to the public for low income patients. They are always willing to work with you and that can be done upfront before any medical costs are incurred. But his attitude of just flat out refusing to pay in any scenario is ridiculous. And yes, every case of non payment affects that hospital's budget, profit and expenses.
 
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Bear

Well-Known Member
Great to see you had the coverage, that millions do not .
I'm glad I had UnitedHealthcare
So you're on your parents plan! A real plus for many under 26.

https://www.cms.gov/cciio/resources/files/adult_child_fact_sheet.html

Young Adults and the Affordable Care Act: Protecting Young Adults and Eliminating Burdens on Families and Businesses


The Affordable Care Act allows young adults to stay on their parents’ health care plan until age 26. Before the President signed this landmark Act into law, many health plans and issuers could and did in fact remove young adults from their parents’ policies because of their age, leaving many college graduates and others with no insurance.
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
Of course hospitals have no overhead and costs to worry about. And let's not concern ourselves about that financial responsibility form that you agreed to and signed before your treatment. And who needs good credit anyways.
Of course they do - but sometimes you need to look after YOU. If your healthcare costs are something you'll NEVER be able to pay off, why wouldn't you try to minimize that cost in general? I mean, I would never be able to pay off a mortgage sized medical bill - why should I try?

As for credit - that's only a number run by agencies that are by and large incompetent - see Equifax. Ideally, if you're following the advice of a budgeting and cashflow thread, you probably don't NEED good credit except for a mortgage - and then you probably will still be able to get one if your only mar is medical debt.

So you would have no issue with your employer negotiating down your salary instead of paying what he owes you because he feels you are expecting/charging wayyyyyyy more than you are worth and he can find someone else to do your job cheaper. Then you can just negotiate your pay with him. Do you also purchase a vehicle, sign a financial contract, take the car home and then suddenly decide you want to renegotiate the contract and not pay as much for the car?
First - no I'm not ok with an employer doing that. But that's a different kind of relationship than you have with a hospital. You may not even have a choice on what the cost is if you are brought in incapacitated. If my employer tries that, I can tell them to screw off and go find another job. If the hospital charges me 10x what the actual cost of a procedure is because they can, then why the hell should I pay them? You shouldn't. You should negotiate - to fail to do so is dumb, and not paying is a strong way to get those costs reduced or removed.

Second, again, it's a different sort of arrangement when you buy a car - before you sign on the dotted line, you know what you're getting and how much it will cost. When I went to the ER insurance covered most of it, but the total cost was around $50k. I didn't know how much it was going to cost me until AFTER I got the bill nearly a month later. That's a terrible analogy.

Let's say you need a heart transplant. It costs approximately $800k to get a new heart according to the googles. Mostly, insurance companies pay for this - but there's NO way the average person would be able to get that kind of debt under control. If the average person makes $50k per year, it would take you more than 16 years if you spent 100% of your income on paying back the hospital. Does that mean you're going to decline treatment if you need a heart? Hell no. Don't be obtuse.
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
Of course hospitals have no overhead and operational costs to worry about. They also have no intention of ever buying any new medical equipment either or performing any upgrades and maintenance. And let's not concern ourselves about that financial responsibility form that you agreed to and signed before your treatment. Who needs good credit anyways.

So you would have no issue with your employer negotiating down your salary instead of paying what he owes you after you have worked for him, because he feels you are expecting/charging wayyyyyyy more than you are worth and he can find someone else to do your job cheaper. Then you can just negotiate your pay with him. Do you also purchase a vehicle, sign a financial contract, take the car home and then suddenly decide you want to renegotiate the contract and not pay as much for the car?

Hospitals have various programs available to the public for low income patients. They are always willing to work with you and that can be done upfront before any medical costs are incurred. But his attitude of just flat out refusing to pay in any scenario is ridiculous. And yes, every case of non payment affects that hospital's budget, profit and expenses.
You are editing your posts again. Just be a man and reply instead of trying to make it look like you had this idea before hand.

As for that, I didn't meet the income requirements for most of the low-income patients - you can solidly be in the "upper middle class" and not mee the requirements. Don't pay until they negotiate.

As for the hospital's budget, profit (which is nonsense to begin with but whatever, don't want to have that debate now), and expenses - you have to take care of yourself. Even a senior captain at the widget would struggle to pay for an $800,000 heart transplant for their son or daughter. Don't be ridiculous.

The reason our system is so messed up is exactly the attitude you put forward - you think the bean counters at the hospital wouldn't gladly screw you to save a buck? No - if everyone else is rationally self-interested, you should be too.
 

A Life Aloft

Well-Known Member
You are editing your posts again. Just be a man and reply instead of trying to make it look like you had this idea before hand.

As for that, I didn't meet the income requirements for most of the low-income patients - you can solidly be in the "upper middle class" and not mee the requirements. Don't pay until they negotiate.

As for the hospital's budget, profit (which is nonsense to begin with but whatever, don't want to have that debate now), and expenses - you have to take care of yourself. Even a senior captain at the widget would struggle to pay for an $800,000 heart transplant for their son or daughter. Don't be ridiculous.

The reason our system is so messed up is exactly the attitude you put forward - you think the bean counters at the hospital wouldn't gladly screw you to save a buck? No - if everyone else is rationally self-interested, you should be too.
Whaaaattt? Jesus, you are pathetic. You're just some kid who thinks he's the world authority on every subject on the planet......what the hell would you know about being a man? I re-read what I wrote and wanted to add something. I did that in like a minute. Since when the hell is that a crime around here? I corrected one typo too. Has that pissed you off as well? I was going to add that all states have programs for low income or for those in dire financial difficulties too, but I decided why bother. I didn't reply until now because we went to brunch. I didn't realize according to your rules, I had to stay here and waste more time with you. You just are obviously not worth trying to have any dialogue with.
 
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