ATC Pay Scale

GyasiM

New Member
PLEASE the FFA is not a business it is aviation safey , if we are a business than tell me what is the product are we selling??????????
The majority of entities in life where money is involved are businesses, whether that is on their mission statement or not! The Goverment is a GIANT Business. Trust. When a Plane crashes, the big cheese of the FAA is not thinking about all the folks who just lost their loved ones. They are thinking. "Crap this is gonna cost a lot of MONEY" period! If the primary goal was absolute safety then the FAA wouldn't always try to cut so many corners from salaries to cleaning out toxic mold from work places.
 

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
The majority of entities in life where money is involved are businesses, whether that is on their mission statement or not! The Goverment is a GIANT Business. Trust. When a Plane crashes, the big cheese of the FAA is not thinking about all the folks who just lost their loved ones. They are thinking. "Crap this is gonna cost a lot of MONEY" period! If the primary goal was absolute safety then the FAA wouldn't always try to cut so many corners from salaries to cleaning out toxic mold from work places.
you can call it what you want but it isnt a business ,period . you sound like management.
 

bat

New Member
there are lots of products and lots of customers in all the different LOBs and organizations within the FAA. Not to mention the shift to a performance based organization and some of the organizations within the FAA going with HPO (high performance organization) standards. Sure the FAA is a government entity, but it's also a business. Before the shift to performance based, right before the end of the fiscal year all the departments would bleed money... want a fancy new office widget or doodaw? just ask for it at the end of the fiscal year. It's not that way anymore, now FAA is much more focused on running like a business.
 

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
there are lots of products and lots of customers in all the different LOBs and organizations within the FAA. Not to mention the shift to a performance based organization and some of the organizations within the FAA going with HPO (high performance organization) standards. Sure the FAA is a government entity, but it's also a business. Before the shift to performance based, right before the end of the fiscal year all the departments would bleed money... want a fancy new office widget or doodaw? just ask for it at the end of the fiscal year. It's not that way anymore, now FAA is much more focused on running like a business.
you sound like management too!
 

pm577

New Member
there are lots of products and lots of customers in all the different LOBs and organizations within the FAA. Not to mention the shift to a performance based organization and some of the organizations within the FAA going with HPO (high performance organization) standards. Sure the FAA is a government entity, but it's also a business. Before the shift to performance based, right before the end of the fiscal year all the departments would bleed money... want a fancy new office widget or doodaw? just ask for it at the end of the fiscal year. It's not that way anymore, now FAA is much more focused on running like a business.
Sounds like a bunch of fancy acronyms for "more of the same thing"

How do you run something like a business when it isn't a business? Government does not face competition, not subject to market forces, nor financial markets. I think the closest comparison is a monopoly... but govt is intentionally inefficient to prevent political manipulation.
These type of programs are the same scams you see in private industry. A big new company comes up with new goals and programs, but nothing really changes. It's all just to make the big wigs look good.
 

nathanw

New Member
there are lots of products and lots of customers in all the different LOBs and organizations within the FAA. Not to mention the shift to a performance based organization and some of the organizations within the FAA going with HPO (high performance organization) standards. Sure the FAA is a government entity, but it's also a business. Before the shift to performance based, right before the end of the fiscal year all the departments would bleed money... want a fancy new office widget or doodaw? just ask for it at the end of the fiscal year. It's not that way anymore, now FAA is much more focused on running like a business.
That's exactly the problem! The FAA is not a business! Yet they're trying to run it like one.
 

bat

New Member
you sound like management too!
:insane: lol, you're funny

I get what ya'll are saying. Around the office I work in, we are facing possible competition and a lot of the specialists are discouraged and moral seems to be slipping. And if performance drops, we're looking at more and more work being contracted out. I'd rather the FAA try to run it like a business and focus on costs vs revenue, rather than unjustified spending. Along those lines, as a govt entity, there will always be politics involved which can hinder proposed improvements.
 

pm577

New Member
Hey queeno (or anyone else), do you have any recommendations for which health care plan the newbies sign up for when we get to OKC?

I've heard there are lots of different plans and different prices, but that's about all I know. Do you know if it starts immediately or is there a waiting period?
 

Svirf

New Member
About the health care plan...I saw some good information about that in the atccti forums...I will check on my next break and post a link if I find it...they lost a lot of good threads a while back.

Here is a link that might be helpful...I did not follow it too far. Let me know if it is not what you were looking for.

http://atccti.com/08php/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=98

Any of you know where I can see a copy of the June 5, 2006 FFAA contract. I was trying to look up the developmental reference made to it on that payscale spreadsheet at the bottom.
 

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
Hey queeno (or anyone else), do you have any recommendations for which health care plan the newbies sign up for when we get to OKC?

I've heard there are lots of different plans and different prices, but that's about all I know. Do you know if it starts immediately or is there a waiting period?
dont quote me but i belive your covered right away,as for a plan there are many to choose from youll have to find one that covers you where your going not all are good in every area of the country.
 

pm577

New Member
About the health care plan...I saw some good information about that in the atccti forums...I will check on my next break and post a link if I find it...they lost a lot of good threads a while back.

Here is a link that might be helpful...I did not follow it too far. Let me know if it is not what you were looking for.

http://atccti.com/08php/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=98

Any of you know where I can see a copy of the June 5, 2006 FFAA contract. I was trying to look up the developmental reference made to it on that payscale spreadsheet at the bottom.
Oh cool, that should do it.
 

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
About the health care plan...I saw some good information about that in the atccti forums...I will check on my next break and post a link if I find it...they lost a lot of good threads a while back.

Here is a link that might be helpful...I did not follow it too far. Let me know if it is not what you were looking for.

http://atccti.com/08php/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=98

Any of you know where I can see a copy of the June 5, 2006 FFAA contract. I was trying to look up the developmental reference made to it on that payscale spreadsheet at the bottom.
i dont know of any 2005 contract, but there is the white book which covers the IWR of that same date ,i was given a copy by my supervisor but a funny thing happened to it.it jumped out of my fingers right into the trash can next to the supervisors desk.very strange
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
i would not put any money on it, some of those smaller tower/tracons can be even worse, some of those folks can be even more overbearing, and there staffing can be even worse than the bigger facilites, there are many that have 40 to 50 % trainees.problem no one ever hears about them.
You've got to understand at a smaller facility there is much more time to sit around and gossip like old hens. Lots of drama.
 

boondr

Penalty Vectorer
all i can say is get hired and enjoy the show, you folks will never never never see the old pay, it may get better but itll take more than a few years , it took ZAU 10 years after the strike to get back to normal and that was the days when they were throwing money at us to get it fixed.

do you think that by the time you check there will even be another contract? we dont have one now and if the wording in the 1996 FAA reform bill is not changed you will have the same thing in 2011.thats if the FFA dose not get its way in contracting out ATC services. dont think it will happen than talk to the FSS guys and gals that got totally screwed, like say good by to that safe goverment retirement, GONE.

my advise is be happy with the pay and work rules because untill the FFA is FORCED to change them this is all you get from them, remember they are going to congress and telling them that they are haveing no problem finding people to work for 30 to 40 % less money and crappy work rules.

dont think iam trying to talk any one out of this, i really dont care if you folks take the job or not, i no longer have a dog in this fight. in 260 day ill be on the never ending day off with pay.just dont get you hopes up and you will be happy.the sad part is that ill be makeing more in retirement as a ATC12 than a nubee ATC12 will ever make working.
I gotta call BS on that one. In order for you to make more than ATC-12 on the current payscale maxed out you would need to be making over 232k right now. Catchy little thing to say but it is BS.

109k/47%(33 year retirement the max if you started at 18 yrs old)=231k+
 

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
I gotta call BS on that one. In order for you to make more than ATC-12 on the current payscale maxed out you would need to be making over 232k right now. Catchy little thing to say but it is BS.

109k/47%(33 year retirement the max if you started at 18 yrs old)=231k+
hey when you make statement like that you show how little you know about the ATC retirement at 30 years in FERS my retirement will be between $117,000 and $120,000 a year adding up my FERS.SSI sup and and drawing $30.000 from my TSP a year. an ATC-12 at C90 bottem of the pay band is $94,000.
 

pm577

New Member
Taking a look at this...

https://employees.faa.gov/employee_services/pay_perf/pay/media/ATSPPpaybandswithlocality08Rev.xls

The facility I am probably going to is a level 7 terminal. AG, which is what I'll make right out of OKC is $37,463. However the D1 has an N/A in it. Does that mean I'll go from AG to D2? Over a $10,000 jump?

Thanks

C.
Well yes, that appears to be correct.

What about towers w/o clearance delivery?
I would guess you certify on ground, jump to D2, then certify on local, and jump to CPC (skipping D3).
Or do you skip D2 and jump to D3 when you certify on ground?
 

chichi

New Member
Taking a look at this...

https://employees.faa.gov/employee_services/pay_perf/pay/media/ATSPPpaybandswithlocality08Rev.xls

The facility I am probably going to is a level 7 terminal. AG, which is what I'll make right out of OKC is $37,463. However the D1 has an N/A in it. Does that mean I'll go from AG to D2? Over a $10,000 jump?

Thanks

C.
It means when you check out on 25% of the positions, there is no change in your salary... but once you check out on 50%, you'll jump to the D2 minimum.
 

pm577

New Member
It means when you check out on 25% of the positions, there is no change in your salary... but once you check out on 50%, you'll jump to the D2 minimum.
I think that applies well generally to ARTCC/tracons.
When I visited my future tower (a level 6) I was told that once you certify on ground you get a payraise over 10k. However they only have ground and local, so that would constitute 50% of positions.

At a place with clearance/ground/local, then when you certify on clearance, you will have checked out on 33% of positions... (which I imagine they'd have to give you a raise to D2)
 
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