Another question about time

braidkid

New Member
Ok, we had a debate on an earlier thread about excessive safety pilot time being looked down upon during an interview. So, when I get my CFI and I'm riding right seat with someone I can log it as PIC as long as the other person takes the dual. So, my question is....do you think it looks bad if someone has a lot of dual. My question being the person riding left seat with me receiving the dual, is his time then considered more valuable than if one of us were under the hood. I know this sounds confusing but my basic question is since safety pilot time is looked down upon, if I get my CFI does excessive dual time of the guy in the left seat look bad as well? Geesh, now I think i'm confusing myself...anyone get what i'm asking?
 

braidkid

New Member
Here's the same question worded a little different....once i get my CFI, is it fair to the person flying left seat to receive excessive dual time? Is excessive dual time received looked down upon?
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
As long as it's "real" dual there should be no problem whatsoever. However, if you have 1,000 hours of dual (big exageration here) and it's all with one person, in the same airplane (or make and model) that might be a red flag.

Dual if it's actual instruction is great and probably just as valuable if not more valuable than multi time - but an obvious abuse of it will be a red flag.


Just my stupid opinion, of course.
 

flyitup

Well-Known Member
Ok… Let’s put this into a hypothetical situation…

Let’s say ole’ Braidkid and Flyitup head out to North Carolina this December on a long cross country in the Duchess. Braidkid will be a MEI and hopefully Flyitup will be an instrument rated commercial pilot. Could Braidkid give Flyitup multi training all the way to North Carolina and back?

Here’s another possible situation… Let’s say Flyitup is already multi engine rated in the Duchess. Would it be looked down upon for me to receive dual from Braidkid all the way to Carolina and back? In other words, which is better, dual received or mucho safety pilot time?

Ok… enough of this “hypothetical” mode..


What do you guys think?
 

braidkid

New Member
Yes, we could both log it PIC and flyitup would receive the dual....question is...since safety pilot time
is looked down upon, what about dual given even if the other pilot is multi rated.
Moral of the story..we're looking for ways to legally split the cost and still have quality time in our log
books.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
I see what you're saying. Basically you both want to fly the trip and each of you want to log 100% of it as PIC.

Here's an idea: Why don't you (flyitup) hold off on the ME rating; then you guys split the $$$ for the trip up like 40/60 or 30/70, you both get multi PIC plus a kick a$$ trip halfway across the country, AND flyitup gets nearly free multi training: you both win and you don't have to worry about it being 'looked down on'... (assuming you were planning on splitting it in the first place)... just an idea.
 

panampilot

New Member
Maybe I didn't understand correctly but how would flyitup get to log multi PIC if he isn't rated in the airplane yet?
 

pure_IMC

New Member
you can not log pic if you are a private asel/inst in a multi, even if you are safety pilot. In order to be safety pilot, you must have a private with appropriate category and class. In order to do what you are proposing to do, you would have to get at minimum your Private multi flyitup. Otherwise, sure you could log dual given, but alas no PIC.
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
If its not dual given, its not dual given. If this is a friend that you are giving multi engine intstruction in, sure its fine. If its a 10,000 hour pilot flying while your riding right seat, its not dual given. I doubt he/she would agree to take the dual for that anyways.

With that being said, if your are taking a friend, even if he is already multi rated and you're giving him instruction, AND also remember your license is on the line, its dual.

Dont cheat the system folks. Real multi dual is alot of work, and alot of fun, and a heck of a learning experience. As youve probably found out, flying a twin with both engines operating isnt that much different than a single. But when your doing real multi instruction, youll fly about half the time with one engine "failed". Have fun!

ka
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I didn't understand correctly but how would flyitup get to log multi PIC if he isn't rated in the airplane yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

...OH yeah... forgot that little 'detail'!
 

flyitup

Well-Known Member
I think I went a little overboard and confused some people in my little “hypothetical” scenario. Kingairer and others, what we plan to do is fly out to First Flight, NC in December to catch the big 100 year celebration. Braidkid and I flew to Vegas from Wichita not too long ago in a 172. Now we’re both starting to think about ways to build the ever so important multi engine time. With that in mind we would like to do the trip in a small twin. Now that we’re all on the same page I have a few thoughts/questions.

1. I’m currently working on my instrument with plans to finish it in the next couple months. I will then move on to the commercial and should have it complete prior to going on the trip. Braidkid is currently working on his CFI, and plans to have his MEI prior to our trip.

2. I think what would make the most sense is for me to take the time to Carolina as dual received and not PIC. In other words Braidkid would teach me all about multi engine flying on the way out their and back. Is this a realistic idea? Would it be both practical and safe to train on the way to a very distant destination?

3. I suppose if logging the PIC time is that important I could attempt to get my ME rating before leaving on our trip, and we could log the time as dual. From what I understand, if I’m rated in the category and class of the aircraft we’re flying in I will log PIC under dual received and Braidkid will log it as PIC dual given…

I think in reality option number 2 would be more likely to happen…

Let’s here what you think…
 

drumminpilot

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
2. I think what would make the most sense is for me to take the time to Carolina as dual received and not PIC. In other words Braidkid would teach me all about multi engine flying on the way out their and back. Is this a realistic idea? Would it be both practical and safe to train on the way to a very distant destination?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard of a lot of people doing this for their instrument, and it seemed to work out fine for them. I don't see any reason why you couldn't do it in the Multi. I guarantee if you did it, you'd know the Duchess, or whatever you take pretty darn well.
 

flyitup

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I've heard of a lot of people doing this for their instrument, and it seemed to work out fine for them. I don't see any reason why you couldn't do it in the Multi. I guarantee if you did it, you'd know the Duchess, or whatever you take pretty darn well.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no doubt that it would take longer than just flying straight out there. Obviously maneuvering with one engine inoperative might slow things down a bit!
 

drumminpilot

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
There's no doubt that it would take longer than just flying straight out there. Obviously maneuvering with one engine inoperative might slow things down a bit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, and kill your cruising altitude too!!
 

pure_IMC

New Member
3. I suppose if logging the PIC time is that important I could attempt to get my ME rating before leaving on our trip, and we could log the time as dual. From what I understand, if I’m rated in the category and class of the aircraft we’re flying in I will log PIC under dual received and Braidkid will log it as PIC dual given…


Well actually, logging PIC in a multi is the most important. If you go for an interview and tell them you have 100 multi pic and 100 multi dual recieved, the latter is worthless. Well I shouldnt say worthless, it would be good for experience but thats it.
 

Jason

Well-Known Member
All of the above issues aside, here's something else you may want to consider - where are you planning on getting the Duchess from?? If you look closely at most rental agreements and/or (most importantly) the flight school's insurance policy you'll probably find a clause that states that all dual instruction in that aircraft must be from an approved instructor employed by the flight school. If something would happen - even something minor like a tire blowout on landing - and it is found out that an 'unapproved' instructor is giving 'unapproved' dual that may very well void the insurance leaving you to foot the bill.

If it's a privatley owned airplane that you're borrowing - no problem. If Braid is going to be employed by the flight school that you're renting the BE76 from - no problem. Any other scenario - make sure that check the fine print on the rental and insurance agreements.

I know it seems trivial to worry about but with so many things that could possibly happen - make sure you have all of your bases covered. There is a 99.9% chance that nothing will happen but there is always that .1% chance that you're going to pop a cylinder doing single engine work over the eastern seaboard.

Jason
 
Top