An interesting take on "quitting"

Take that the other direction and say "ok I'll take positive space travel and hotels, but no credit". EVEN WORSE IDEA. To use a simplistic example. Pilot only commutes once for an 11 day trip. Lets say it's a 2 hour flight each way. Thats 4 hours of credit (credit, that number that counts towards your days off) that you lose each month. While the credit per day at each carrier varies, 5 seems to be an average compromise. so based on that alone thats 9....NINE potential days off throughout the year that you have lost. If you fly straight domestic and commute multiple times, the problem only gets worse.
Uh...those days are “lost” anyway, you’re just finding your own way to work.

Most of the rest of your post is bunk too. My pilot group is the same size as my regional was when I left. MOST of the flying at my base is scheduled Polar stuff that is known ahead of time. Reserbe stuff is just the same as most places, reserve lines in the hub cities with a company provided hotel.

Outstation basing (home or otherwise) has its challenges, but it’s not insurmountable. Gateway is a good middle ground. Plus, if you don’t like it you can still move to base.
 

broncoav8r

Well-Known Member
Uh...those days are “lost” anyway, you’re just finding your own way to work.

Most of the rest of your post is bunk too. My pilot group is the same size as my regional was when I left. MOST of the flying at my base is scheduled Polar stuff that is known ahead of time. Reserbe stuff is just the same as most places, reserve lines in the hub cities with a company provided hotel.

Outstation basing (home or otherwise) has its challenges, but it’s not insurmountable. Gateway is a good middle ground. Plus, if you don’t like it you can still move to base.
Eh not really. A large US carrier was about to test something similar to outstation basing with the above provisions (flights and hotels) as recently as this past summer.

The only way a large 121 carrier will go to gateway basing is if they get out of paying the credit for the transportation costs. Otherwise with each gateway they create, they increase the amount of soft time they will pay (and reduce pairing efficiency).
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
Eh not really. A large US carrier was about to test something similar to outstation basing with the above provisions (flights and hotels) as recently as this past summer.

The only way a large 121 carrier will go to gateway basing is if they get out of paying the credit for the transportation costs. Otherwise with each gateway they create, they increase the amount of soft time they will pay (and reduce pairing efficiency).
We're 2000 pilots give or take. Seems to work.
 
Eh not really. A large US carrier was about to test something similar to outstation basing with the above provisions (flights and hotels) as recently as this past summer.

The only way a large 121 carrier will go to gateway basing is if they get out of paying the credit for the transportation costs. Otherwise with each gateway they create, they increase the amount of soft time they will pay (and reduce pairing efficiency).
We don’t get paid for gateway at beachball and it’s still incredibly popular. Only people who don't care for it are some that live in base and feel they should get a piece of the pie, something that I don't disagree with. But it should be addressed in a manner of "lets get those guys something too" instead of "I don't commute, so gateway is stupid."

Since I've started 121 flying I've been based in 5 different airports, three of those bases are closed. I'm not going to move every time that happens.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
We don’t get paid for gateway at beachball and it’s still incredibly popular. Only people who don't care for it are some that live in base and feel they should get a piece of the pie, something that I don't disagree with. But it should be addressed in a manner of "lets get those guys something too" instead of "I don't commute, so gateway is stupid."

Since I've started 121 flying I've been based in 5 different airports, three of those bases are closed. I'm not going to move every time that happens.
I live in base and I'm fine with it as is. I also don't have kids so I don't get to take full advantage of our medical or dental. Doesn't mean I think we should not cover people's kids on medical.
 

Autothrust Blue

Ultra-low-cost member
We don’t get paid for gateway at beachball and it’s still incredibly popular. Only people who don't care for it are some that live in base and feel they should get a piece of the pie, something that I don't disagree with. But it should be addressed in a manner of "lets get those guys something too" instead of "I don't commute, so gateway is stupid."
Something for everyone, or no deal.
 

tcco94

Professional GTA V Pilot
So to recap here:

It will take 10-20 years in the airline industry to have a wage to buy a house? Uh, okay.

You get to your hotels at 1:30-2am? I've never heard of a scheduled flight that late. (Could be wrong)

CFI job will give you a wage to support a family and buy a house? But you need to wait 10-20 years in the airlines? Is that a joke?

You woke up at 3am to commute to work supposedly until 1:30-2am and didn't bring any food with you for a 23 hour day? Not one thing?

You only live off of first class snacks because you can't figure out how to bring anything else with you. Oh, and every leg is delayed with no sits, long lines, aircraft swaps and the terminal is on fire. Got it.

You didn't do any research on the regional you chose and are shocked that year 2 you made less than year 1 where you got a huge sign on bonus. Seriously, that's on you.

I wish him well on his future and the ending of the video was positive. I just couldn't help but roll my eyes at some of these comments. If he has an audience of pilots and future airline pilots he is passing a lot of dramatic misinformation, IMO. I get the industry isn't for everyone.

Now I've only been in the industry for 2 years, but it's just makes me cringe listening to this. Hopefully his viewers that are in the process of trying to become an airline pilot do some research outside this video.
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
Okay, so I finally watched it too.
The dude is not certain he did the right thing when he quit, hence the repetitions of phrases and exaggerations in non-verbal communications in the video.
Yes, he was beat from commuting and the whole thing wasn't quite what he signed up for. However he quit by persuading himself that his life is gonna suck for the next 10-20 years, he will look 64 at 48, cue in radiation and other stuff he mentioned. $5 he finds a non-flying job in the next couple of years, because there is the thinly veiled "or something" after claiming he will go back to cfiing. Corporate day trip gigs - yaaaa, but someone's gotta pick up the type and recurrent bills. I was fortunate to do that for two or three years flying right seat, but the key word is fortunate.
Any rate... choices were made, bridges burned, we all got to talk about it a bit.
I watched another video earlier today, that I enjoyed and found much more relatable.

 
Possibly, but I think there is a chance quite a few more than the last time will say "eff it, find someone else to fly the airplanes then".
Considering a bunch of the new hires now (at least at my shop) are rotor transition and older guys coming back to the career after having taken 10 years off, you’re probably right.
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
Considering a bunch of the new hires now (at least at my shop) are rotor transition and older guys coming back to the career after having taken 10 years off, you’re probably right.
We "compared notes" with my friend who went to your shop - her class was actually surprisingly younger than mine.

But yeah, at least one of the big three ran the numbers of how much to budget for keeping everyone on payroll once the economy tanks, because furlough was deemed to be a death sentence.
 
We "compared notes" with my friend who went to your shop - her class was actually surprisingly younger than mine.

But yeah, at least one of the big three ran the numbers of how much to budget for keeping everyone on payroll once the economy tanks, because furlough was deemed to be a death sentence.
It definitely varies class by class. Out on the line I’d say it’s about a 50/50 mix from my experience. I just can’t see many of the 40+ crowd with other skill sets sticking around in the right seat at a regional if the music stops.
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
It definitely varies class by class. Out on the line I’d say it’s about a 50/50 mix from my experience. I just can’t see many of the 40+ crowd with other skill sets sticking around in the right seat at a regional when the music stops.
FIFY. It's not a matter of it, but when the industry slows down, and to what degree.
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
It definitely varies class by class. Out on the line I’d say it’s about a 50/50 mix from my experience. I just can’t see many of the 40+ crowd with other skill sets sticking around in the right seat at a regional if the music stops.
Where do you think they’d go? In 2008, I knew plenty of engineers who couldn’t even get an interview, and were working at places like Home Depot. A real recession is nasty, and sucks for everyone. The tech industry is often hit just as hard as everyone else, and frankly I think tech is due for a pretty big fall.
 

bimmerphile

SuperCritical™ Member
Where do you think they’d go? In 2008, I knew plenty of engineers who couldn’t even get an interview, and were working at places like Home Depot. A real recession is nasty, and sucks for everyone. The tech industry is often hit just as hard as everyone else, and frankly I think tech is due for a pretty big fall.
A lot have pensions or have already retired from another career. I'd imagine they'd just kick their feet up and ride the wave
 

Yakob

Grand Prognosticator Nominee
We "compared notes" with my friend who went to your shop - her class was actually surprisingly younger than mine.

But yeah, at least one of the big three ran the numbers of how much to budget for keeping everyone on payroll once the economy tanks, because furlough was deemed to be a death sentence.
A death sentence for the airline? Odd that they'd be willing to spend money to avoid furloughing. Once the next recession hits I'm sure there will be plenty of furloughs, so while the airlines will have plenty of problems retaining pilots will no longer be one of them. If pilots leave the industry that will be just as well since it will mean fewer furloughs, but I wonder how many of them will be able to. Certainly the airline industry tends to be particularly cyclical but as @GypsyPilot pointed out in a recession there won't be many jobs available in other industries either. It seems many have forgotten how bleak the job market was last recession. Those days are probably coming back soon- it's been 9 years since the end of the last recession and going more than a decade without a recession would be pretty much unprecedented.
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
A death sentence for the airline? Odd that they'd be willing to spend money to avoid furloughing. Once the next recession hits I'm sure there will be plenty of furloughs, so while the airlines will have plenty of problems retaining pilots will no longer be one of them. If pilots leave the industry that will be just as well since it will mean fewer furloughs, but I wonder how many of them will be able to. Certainly the airline industry tends to be particularly cyclical but as @GypsyPilot pointed out in a recession there won't be many jobs available in other industries either. It seems many have forgotten how bleak the job market was last recession. Those days are probably coming back soon- it's been 9 years since the end of the last recession and going more than a decade without a recession would be pretty much unprecedented.
Less people than projected came back from the last furlough. Whatever we think about, at least one legacy management does deem the pilot shortage real.
 
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