An interesting take on "quitting"

#82
Positive rate, flaps up. Oh wait that doesn't seem right
@Jordan93

One of the many things FO Mack attack did. Takeoff, positive rate. “Gear up” , and he brings the flaps to 0. I flew with that CA. He said it scared the hell out of him, he immediately pushed nose own and uttered some expletive. Mack attack apologizes, puts the gear up, then throws the flaps back to 20.
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
#84
so anyone watched the video? How is? worth watching on a day off, or is it more of a sitting airport standby need to kill some braincells kind of a deal?
 

poser765

Well-Known Member
#86
so anyone watched the video? How is? worth watching on a day off, or is it more of a sitting airport standby need to kill some braincells kind of a deal?
Watch it if you want. It’s fine. He basically explained why he left 121 flying. He had reasons and they were perfectly valid things he just didn’t want to put up with. He left a job he didn’t like. Apparently that’s a weird millennial thing now ?

The video isn’t really for us. It’s for his regular subscribers. The people that often watch his content. If you watch his channel watch it. If you don’t, there’s not much reason to watch this video. It’s not for you.
 

JordanD

Honorary Member
#88
Watch it if you want. It’s fine. He basically explained why he left 121 flying. He had reasons and they were perfectly valid things he just didn’t want to put up with. He left a job he didn’t like. Apparently that’s a weird millennial thing now ?

The video isn’t really for us. It’s for his regular subscribers. The people that often watch his content. If you watch his channel watch it. If you don’t, there’s not much reason to watch this video. It’s not for you.
Yeah, I really don't get it. A lot of them ARE valid gripes. Should he have known about it before signing up? Yeah, possibly. But the guy went out and tried it, admitted that it wasn't for him, and is returning to a job that while I would gladly never do again, he seems really passionate about it, so good for him for returning to it. At the very least he's probably a kickass CFI because he's not looking to just bail as soon as he hits the magic number.

Some of the attitudes in here make the point that pilots really can be their own worst enemies. "Should have packed a lunch." No, that's why we get per diem. An adult shouldn't have to live off peanut butter sandwiches and rotten leftovers carried around with hotel ice that's halfway melted the second it comes out of the machine. I had a 13 hour duty day the other day, between hours of coordinating with maintenance and dispatch and an unexpected diversion/quick turn, I couldn't have microwaved my 4 day old casserole even if I wanted to. And as a commuter who has to commute in the day before, and my phone generally rings the first minute of my RAP, there's not really a whole lot of time to do a bunch of meal prep. I'm not saying it should be the norm by any means, as getting out on time is one of our job descriptions, but if being able to do the IMSAFE checklist means taking a couple minute hit on one leg of a trip, so be it. Be responsible about it, maybe pick the place that doesn't have a line wrapped around the terminal, but expecting a guy to live off biscoffs, pretzels, and whatever trail mix is in his bag isn't realistic.

"Should have lived in base." Cool, until your base/shrinks or closes, now you've uprooted the wife and kids and you're still stuck commuting for no reason, from a city where you have no friends/family support, and one that's probably way more expensive than where you originally lived.

That said, this guy is giving up a huge amount of earning/retirement potential down the road. Anybody that's made it to that point in their career probably realizes that, but I'm assuming he's a big boy and thought about that decision and made the one that was right for him right now. Time will tell if he regrets it or not.
 

Yakob

Grand Prognosticator Nominee
#90
Yeah, I really don't get it. A lot of them ARE valid gripes. Should he have known about it before signing up? Yeah, possibly. But the guy went out and tried it, admitted that it wasn't for him, and is returning to a job that while I would gladly never do again, he seems really passionate about it, so good for him for returning to it. At the very least he's probably a kickass CFI because he's not looking to just bail as soon as he hits the magic number.

Some of the attitudes in here make the point that pilots really can be their own worst enemies. "Should have packed a lunch." No, that's why we get per diem. An adult shouldn't have to live off peanut butter sandwiches and rotten leftovers carried around with hotel ice that's halfway melted the second it comes out of the machine. I had a 13 hour duty day the other day, between hours of coordinating with maintenance and dispatch and an unexpected diversion/quick turn, I couldn't have microwaved my 4 day old casserole even if I wanted to. And as a commuter who has to commute in the day before, and my phone generally rings the first minute of my RAP, there's not really a whole lot of time to do a bunch of meal prep. I'm not saying it should be the norm by any means, as getting out on time is one of our job descriptions, but if being able to do the IMSAFE checklist means taking a couple minute hit on one leg of a trip, so be it. Be responsible about it, maybe pick the place that doesn't have a line wrapped around the terminal, but expecting a guy to live off biscoffs, pretzels, and whatever trail mix is in his bag isn't realistic.

"Should have lived in base." Cool, until your base/shrinks or closes, now you've uprooted the wife and kids and you're still stuck commuting for no reason, from a city where you have no friends/family support, and one that's probably way more expensive than where you originally lived.

That said, this guy is giving up a huge amount of earning/retirement potential down the road. Anybody that's made it to that point in their career probably realizes that, but I'm assuming he's a big boy and thought about that decision and made the one that was right for him right now. Time will tell if he regrets it or not.
Agreed fully. I wonder how many people on here complain about the same issues this guy had. Many of us talk about wanting to improve the profession, pay, working conditions, etc. and here this guy actually voted with his feet and there's one less person competing for airline pilot jobs.


As for the packing a lunch thing, people on here would probably have crucified him for that too if he had done it. We've had several threads full of people whingeing about pilots who pack food.
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
#92
That's a clean shave.

2016 Tu-154 crash off of Sochi coast was fatigued crew on the back side of the clock and FO raised the flaps instead of gear.
 

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
#93
Yeah, I really don't get it. A lot of them ARE valid gripes. Should he have known about it before signing up? Yeah, possibly. But the guy went out and tried it, admitted that it wasn't for him, and is returning to a job that while I would gladly never do again, he seems really passionate about it, so good for him for returning to it. At the very least he's probably a kickass CFI because he's not looking to just bail as soon as he hits the magic number.

Some of the attitudes in here make the point that pilots really can be their own worst enemies. "Should have packed a lunch." No, that's why we get per diem. An adult shouldn't have to live off peanut butter sandwiches and rotten leftovers carried around with hotel ice that's halfway melted the second it comes out of the machine. I had a 13 hour duty day the other day, between hours of coordinating with maintenance and dispatch and an unexpected diversion/quick turn, I couldn't have microwaved my 4 day old casserole even if I wanted to. And as a commuter who has to commute in the day before, and my phone generally rings the first minute of my RAP, there's not really a whole lot of time to do a bunch of meal prep. I'm not saying it should be the norm by any means, as getting out on time is one of our job descriptions, but if being able to do the IMSAFE checklist means taking a couple minute hit on one leg of a trip, so be it. Be responsible about it, maybe pick the place that doesn't have a line wrapped around the terminal, but expecting a guy to live off biscoffs, pretzels, and whatever trail mix is in his bag isn't realistic.

"Should have lived in base." Cool, until your base/shrinks or closes, now you've uprooted the wife and kids and you're still stuck commuting for no reason, from a city where you have no friends/family support, and one that's probably way more expensive than where you originally lived.

That said, this guy is giving up a huge amount of earning/retirement potential down the road. Anybody that's made it to that point in their career probably realizes that, but I'm assuming he's a big boy and thought about that decision and made the one that was right for him right now. Time will tell if he regrets it or not.
Very well said. Even being based where I live, my number one gripe is eating while on a trip. I try to pack food, which half the time has it’s own issues and is a royal pain. The schedules we have makes it very hard to eat the three square meals. In fact, I’m now wired to eat a big meal and that’s about it for the day. When at home I look at my wife as if she is crazy when she wants to eat dinner 5 hours after a large lunch, because on the road that lunch would be my only meal and I’d just slap some PB on a slice of bread later that evening and call it a night. Partly my fault, but when you have 6 legs and either get up before stores open or arrive after stores close there isn’t many options. Also, since the pay is still not what It should be, if you have a family or debt you use per diem for bills. So that further limits the food you are able to get on the road.

I don’t think being frustrated by this issue is being entitled, something as little as a guaranteed catered meal once a day would take care of that issue. But, that’s not cost effective and just not going to happen. Especially when the mood of the pilot community is... Look, I did my time and paid my dues, so you should too. Still don’t understand that attitude towards the new generation of pilots. I think the times are changing and certain things that once were considered normal are now being addressed, let’s not stop that because we are mad that 20 years ago things were worse than they are now..
 
Last edited:
#94
Very well said. Even being based where I live, my number one gripe is eating while on a trip. I try to pack food, which half the time has it’s own issues and is a royal pain. The schedules we have makes it very hard to eat the three square meals. In fact, I’m now wired to eat a big meal and that’s about it for the day. When at home I look at my wife as if she is crazy when she wants to eat dinner 5 hours after a large lunch, because on the road that lunch would be my only meal and I’d just slap some PB on a slice of bread later that evening and call it a night. Partly my fault, but when you have 6 legs and either get up before stores open or arrive after stores close there isn’t many options. Also, since the pay is still not what It should be, if you have a family or debt you use per diem for bills. So that further limits the food you are able to get on the road.

I don’t think being frustrated by this issue is being entitled, something as little as a guaranteed catered meal once a day would take care of that issue. But, that’s not cost effective and just not going to happen. Especially when the mood of the pilot community is... Look, I did my time and paid my dues, so you should too. Still don’t understand that attitude towards the new generation of pilots. I think the times are changing and certain things that once were considered normal are now being addressed, let’s not stop that because we are mad that 20 years ago things were worse than they are now..
Look. I’ve gotten crapped opon for at least 5 of my 11 year airline career. It’s not so much “i paid my dues and I hope you do too!” as much as it is we were working twice as much for half as much and you’re STILL bitching?”

We want it better off for you guys, and it has improved a bunch. Yet you’re still rage quitting.
 

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
#95
Look. I’ve gotten crapped opon for at least 5 of my 11 year airline career. It’s not so much “i paid my dues and I hope you do too!” as much as it is we were working twice as much for half as much and you’re STILL bitching?”

We want it better off for you guys, and it has improved a bunch. Yet you’re still rage quitting.
Totally understand, the time you joined and was trying to climb the ladder was probably the hardest time to make it, good on you for getting to where you’re at. I know the regional you worked for didn’t pay much, the same as many on here. I still don’t think it is new guys fault that it was the way it was, heck most new guys were probably qualified to fly for the regionals ten years ago but couldn’t justify the piss poor pay, so they took the seniority hit instead. There is a lot of mid 40’s if not older in regional classes these days.
 
#96
Look. I’ve gotten crapped opon for at least 5 of my 11 year airline career. It’s not so much “i paid my dues and I hope you do too!” as much as it is we were working twice as much for half as much and you’re STILL bitching?”

We want it better off for you guys, and it has improved a bunch. Yet you’re still rage quitting.
11 years? Junior, I’ve been crapped on for 23 now. Come on in and join the club. It gives you something to talk about over a barley malt and we can all join together and hate the one airline wonders who never had to struggle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

FlyPurdue

Well-Known Member
#97
I really think that we as professional pilots, need to push for true 'Home Basing.' I hear the settlement a lot that we chose to commute, but as someone above posted - it is just not practical to be moving constantly. At nearly all of the regionals (some majors/LCCs too), there is just no stick/carrot large enough from management's perspective to stop with the constant displacements, and base shuffling.

Pilots at all levels need to be treated like management consultants...send us where you need us, and we can live (for the most part) anywhere (while respecting seniority from a schedule perspective). Can you imagine if recent hires at Bain, or McKinsey, etc were told..."you need to standby to your work assignment in San Francisco, oh and once you get there...no more SPG...rather you are going to have to pay to live with 20 other people in a small house/apartment." No one would do it.

Its not my problem (anymore) how much this costs, this should be the cost of doing business with professional aviators.
 
#98
I really think that we as professional pilots, need to push for true 'Home Basing.' I hear the settlement a lot that we chose to commute, but as someone above posted - it is just not practical to be moving constantly. At nearly all of the regionals (some majors/LCCs too), there is just no stick/carrot large enough from management's perspective to stop with the constant displacements, and base shuffling.

Pilots at all levels need to be treated like management consultants...send us where you need us, and we can live (for the most part) anywhere (while respecting seniority from a schedule perspective). Can you imagine if recent hires at Bain, or McKinsey, etc were told..."you need to standby to your work assignment in San Francisco, oh and once you get there...no more SPG...rather you are going to have to pay to live with 20 other people in a small house/apartment." No one would do it.

Its not my problem (anymore) how much this costs, this should be the cost of doing business with professional aviators.
That'll never happen.
I knew a couple college friends and two ended up going to McKinsey. Um, yeah they would have sacrificed anything to get that job. At that age, they don't care.
 

FlyPurdue

Well-Known Member
#99
I worked in corporate strategy / finance before retuning to the flight deck, and when I was deciding whether or not to return...I was being courted by a few consultancies, and also could have absolute remained in-house at my past job. I would have never considered consulting if the lifestyle that one could expect was similar to that of a junior pilot's...that being said, I did sign up to commute to reserve at a regional.

Yes, the job description of pilot / consultant varies significantly, but there are still a lot of parallels:
--We are expected to use our past experiences to make critical, accurate, and quick decisions using all available information
--We are expected to coach and mentor our colleagues as we are promoted/upgraded
--We have to be extremely detail orated, while understanding the big picture of our mission

I think fundamentally, I am tired of us pilots treating this job as anything but a highly skilled and compensated career choice. I want us pilots to look at ourselves as critical to the success/failure of the organization. I want us pilots to demand a lifestyle that is not simply an incremental improvement, but rather a paradigm shift of how this career (and industry as a whole) is defined, compensated, and progresses.
 
Top