Ameriflight

Akutan

Well-Known Member
Commenting on the above, I'll give an example of a quick economic about-face and how a company can respond: I got hired by a box hauler in 2000 during dot-com inspired economic hotness. This company (Wiggins) was "sooooo happy to have you" and "was gonna have to start parking airplanes due to lack of twin qualified pilots" according to the C.P. He promises me a set run, he promises jumpseat agreements that don't exist, etc. Fast forward to Oct. 2001, the economy craps out, pilots on the street, general mayhem and the attitude shift begins. First give me some extra flying within the UPS structure. Then a couple of charters they pick up off an ad hoc service in addition to the UPS schedule. Finally its, "Hey, you guys are gonna carry a pager 24 hrs a day because you're being put on charter search." Now its a completely different job yet of the 4 of us at my base I was the only guy who walked right then. It didn't hurt me because I had other stuff going on, but it is a great example of what a union is supposed to prevent. Had I needed my job or had 5 or 10 years invested I might have just needed to bend over. Our C.P. there who I genuinely liked and think really cared about the pilot group could do nothing, as he was dug in geographically and was older and could risk nothing. I'm currently living vicariously through some friends at Atlas who are experiencing something similar and I wonder how ugly that would get without their union.

As an aside to what Ppragman said, I consider myself to have worked for only one really quality company in my flying career and consider them quite rare after observing this industry for 30 years. This outfit was driven to provide quality service and to make money but never seemed to let that cloud how they treated employees. That company was Spernak Airways in Anchorage and I thank them for helping me see that things could be different.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
Commenting on the above, I'll give an example of a quick economic about-face and how a company can respond: I got hired by a box hauler in 2000 during dot-com inspired economic hotness. This company (Wiggins) was "sooooo happy to have you" and "was gonna have to start parking airplanes due to lack of twin qualified pilots" according to the C.P. He promises me a set run, he promises jumpseat agreements that don't exist, etc. Fast forward to Oct. 2001, the economy craps out, pilots on the street, general mayhem and the attitude shift begins. First give me some extra flying within the UPS structure. Then a couple of charters they pick up off an ad hoc service in addition to the UPS schedule. Finally its, "Hey, you guys are gonna carry a pager 24 hrs a day because you're being put on charter search." Now its a completely different job yet of the 4 of us at my base I was the only guy who walked right then. It didn't hurt me because I had other stuff going on, but it is a great example of what a union is supposed to prevent. Had I needed my job or had 5 or 10 years invested I might have just needed to bend over. Our C.P. there who I genuinely liked and think really cared about the pilot group could do nothing, as he was dug in geographically and was older and could risk nothing. I'm currently living vicariously through some friends at Atlas who are experiencing something similar and I wonder how ugly that would get without their union.

As an aside to what Ppragman said, I consider myself to have worked for only one really quality company in my flying career and consider them quite rare after observing this industry for 30 years. This outfit was driven to provide quality service and to make money but never seemed to let that cloud how they treated employees. That company was Spernak Airways in Anchorage and I thank them for helping me see that things could be different.
Was Bo there when you were?
 

A150K

Well-Known Member
See, this is where you've got it wrong. ;-)



That's really good for you, but let me let you in on a little secret...these are the glory days right now where you can do this. This (at least for my short career thus far) is totally abnormal. I've always done what I've thought was "right and/or appropriate" in the cockpit, and used have a pretty high amount of "git-er-dun" (any more I'm too lazy to try too hard) but some of us on here started our careers during a time period where you had to have a damn good reason why you didn't fly. I didn't fly for Amflight, but I flew UPS boxes, and freight, and in the middle of the recession it was "you do what you are told or you don't work." It was never that obviously stated, but guys would get washed out of some program, or let go for some other BS, because hey, there was a stack of desperate wannabes ready to jump in and do the job. Guys would get passed over for upgrade, or (up north) simply not kept on after the summer, or whatever. The list goes on and on, but when operators had the opportunity to, they wouldn't tolerate a "no."

Not all operators are like this - but you should definitely remember that businesses are like little countries. Sure there are benevolent dictatorships, but there are a lot of despots out there too - personally, if I was picking countries to live in, I'd rather live in the one where the people had a bit of say. That's generally why I've tried to work for small businesses with good owners - if the owners are the right people, you can go to them and say, "this is BS, I won't do it," and they'll back you - but they're still the "king" while you're at work, and if you cause too much trouble and the king can do without you, he will.
Oh yeah for sure. I doubt I would've even done that had it not been my second to last week with the company ;) Plus I was quite a bit nicer to them than literally saying "Go pound sand"...it was more of a "I'd rather not since I have some stuff to take care of at home since I'll be out of town for a month after next week"
 

Akutan

Well-Known Member
Was Bo there when you were?
Yeah, and Brian, Brent, and little Ben was rampin'

I hear from an Amflight pilot where I live now that the company is about 60% staffed, but they seem to be confused about how to proceed. The current tactic is a $20k bonus for pilots who stay on this holiday through next holiday. Even sent out hats celebrating the bonus ala Trump, "Make Ameriflight Great Again Peak to Peak" They are changing interview and ground school strategies on a monthly basis due to problems with new hires.
 

Inverted

Resignation in lieu of champ
But what I'm thinking is, why do people stay? And they do stay. Was talking to a guy that has been there a while and loves it. Some people love to be tied up and whipped with a racquetball in their mouth. And I've seen some of those S&M babes. It's not what I'd do with them. Then again, I did the 121 people thing and absolutely hated it. With every fiber of my body. I love the bush (different kind of people than the 121). I love the boxes. It's my racquetball.
Why do they stay? Because they can't move on, it is quite simple. Either their brains are fried from flying freight too long, or they have something on their record preventing them from moving on. Maybe you are wired to love it, in which case it will work out for you. I am not super fond of AMF for the way I was treated there but that had more to do with the base and base manager than the company as a whole. With that said mx is pretty horrible at best, the schedules are fair to horrendous, the equipment is terrible.

If you love the bush, go fly in the bush, you don't need AMF for that.
 

BajtheJino

I'm looking at you.
Why do they stay? Because they can't move on, it is quite simple.
Ah, come on. Isn't that selling some of those guys short? Not all of them can have 5 failures or DUI's or felony convictions or similar. Can't it be just as simple as they found something as simple as a job that fits them? I have to think that not all the runs in all the bases are poop?
 

Inverted

Resignation in lieu of champ
Ah, come on. Isn't that selling some of those guys short? Not all of them can have 5 failures or DUI's or felony convictions or similar. Can't it be just as simple as they found something as simple as a job that fits them? I have to think that not all the runs in all the bases are poop?
Given the climate of the economy now, and how it has been for the last 5 years. I can't imagine a single individual there now that would be at NetJets still, and not have a screw loose. The old guard that stayed 4-8 years was because the industry fell flat on its face. If there are guys there now that have been there 5-10 years they have either bought into the MASSIVE hype machine that seems to surround AMF, or they have issues getting hired somewhere else.
 

BajtheJino

I'm looking at you.
Go read about the company and make your decision about what is great about it or not.
I've met plenty of those guys. They B&M just like the rest of the people in the industry. Its wasn't so long ago they were being "furloughed" aka let go. Its like everything else. Some people like working in the bowls of a ship cleaning fish. Some people like working at JC Pennies. To each their own. In a year from now I won't be at AMF. Everything has a season dog.
 

A150K

Well-Known Member
Why do they stay? Because they can't move on, it is quite simple. Either their brains are fried from flying freight too long, or they have something on their record preventing them from moving on. Maybe you are wired to love it, in which case it will work out for you. I am not super fond of AMF for the way I was treated there but that had more to do with the base and base manager than the company as a whole. With that said mx is pretty horrible at best, the schedules are fair to horrendous, the equipment is terrible.

If you love the bush, go fly in the bush, you don't need AMF for that.
Haha reminds me of an old joke a guy told me there...."If you've been here for more than 5 years and you're not in managment or at the very least a training captain/checkairman, you either have a DUI or you're too odd to go anywhere else".
 

Inverted

Resignation in lieu of champ
I've met plenty of those guys. They B&M just like the rest of the people in the industry. Its wasn't so long ago they were being "furloughed" aka let go. Its like everything else. Some people like working in the bowls of a ship cleaning fish. Some people like working at JC Pennies. To each their own. In a year from now I won't be at AMF. Everything has a season dog.
Furlough is not aka let go. Again I think you'll learn a thing or two once you get some work under your belt. Again, good luck.
 

Inverted

Resignation in lieu of champ
Haha reminds me of an old joke a guy told me there...."If you've been here for more than 5 years and you're not in managment or at the very least a training captain/checkairman, you either have a DUI or you're too odd to go anywhere else".
I think that's being nice. I question why anyone would want to be an ACP or lower, for any length of time. Non flying base manager I could maybe understand. Even being an ACP hasn't really netted anyone an outstanding job from the jump from AMF. Most have to fill other boxes first. Doesn't mean it isn't useful on the resume for the next step.
 

Inverted

Resignation in lieu of champ
Yeah. I've only 250 hrs. This is my first job.
135 furlough? Yeah, thats let go.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. But no please continue to enlighten those who have several thousand hours and over a decade in this business, how it is. You're doing a great job...
 

A150K

Well-Known Member
I think that's being nice. I question why anyone would want to be an ACP or lower, for any length of time. Non flying base manager I could maybe understand. Even being an ACP hasn't really netted anyone an outstanding job from the jump from AMF. Most have to fill other boxes first. Doesn't mean it isn't useful on the resume for the next step.
They couldn't have paid me enough to be an ACP (or Base Supervisor Pilot as they call it now...) there....Some people felt it gave them some sort of "status" boost or some crap....Lol! is all I have to say to that. I was able to check off the training captain box, which I am thankful for, but it certaintly didn't warrant keeping me there and probably could have been a checkairman if I stuck around and pushed for it....but I didn't want to stay. Simple as that.
 
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