Discussion in 'Airline Pilots' started by AAPalmTree, Oct 22, 2017.
Reminds me of a few captains I flew with way back.
In what way? I'm just stating the obvious.
Basically I'm just not sure why anyone is surprised that they're not being treated well when there are still like 300 more than well qualified guys applying for every 1 job available. I read the description of the event and decided not to attend as it was pretty obvious that event was going to be worthless. Most of my friends in other careers look at me in horror when I speak of our working conditions... I'm just lucky enough that I'm senior enough to get weekends off.
I think you're misusing the term "willing." It's necessary to get the qualifications necessary to be competitive to be hired.
Love it or hate it, it's what we're tasked with.
I think that’s just a little melodramatic, especially now. Circa 2004 with a turboprop regional? Maybe.
Willing is definitely relative, it's why I put "myself included" inside the quotes. I too know the game and willingly play it. No one is holding a gun to my head to make me come in and fly a plane.
I can't think of any other careers that hold you hostage to under performing companies with a seniority system that dictates whether your life is a pile of garbage or if you can reliably have a schedule that's livable to anyone older than age 28.
Ambition, competency, enthusiasm etc are not rewarded, it's something that I consistently struggle with.
Edit; I should say that the dramatic pay increases of the last 9 months, have made it better, but I'm only 30 years old and this is the first time starting compensation hasn't been a joke in my short career. I think this is a blip and once the hour requirements are reduced it'll be back to business as usual.
How many other jobs in how many other industries have you worked?
None, just a car wash in HS, landscaping all through college also worked in the assembly line of a factory in '08 during the recession. Other than that, flight instructing, other aviation jobs, and of course I've been in the military for 8 years, but also on the aviation side. I will acknowledge that aviation is all I intimately know, but the vast majority of my friends that are professionals work in other industries and we do compare notes.
So, none. Got it.
You know, I used to make this argument until I realized there are some flaws with it.
Some guys say, "VOTE WITH YOUR FEET, THEY MAKE TAKE YOUR LIFE, BUT WE'LL NEVER LOSE OUR FREEDOMMMMMMMMMM!" But this is misguided. If you're not on property to help make things better, join the union, help with a committee, then things will NEVER get better at ANY airline.
Further, legacy carriers hire regional pilots from the civilian ranks. Sure, there are going to be some part 91/135 guys that make it out, but not many. Of all the guys I know who went another route to "skip the regionals" (and I tried to be one of them when I started down this career path), most seem to say they wish they'd just gone to a regional to start.
It's hard to say that we're doing this to ourselves when this is the only viable route without being in the military, and some of us are excluded from service from the start.
Those of us who are military aviators, aren't swatting the interview invites away like flies on poop. (I'm not just talking for myself)
It still takes networking and time/luck.
Seniority system is a positive and negative. When bad times hit it can be a blessing and a curse.
Airlines have never made any money except maybe in the past five years or so. Anyone currently flying knew the rules before they put their board piece down on the board.
It's the price we pay for the hope they hit it big and retire as a 777CA working a few days a month on short call.
Several airlines stick out in terms of potential future - SWA, jetBlue, Delta, and yes even Spirit. The odds are in your favor.
Some don't - UA mostly comes to mind.
Some could go either way - AA, AK, Allegiant, and Frontier.
The best thing about this career is it allows you to live extremely frugally and invest your income in things that make you money. The income is still relatively good and even when the pay was bad at the commuters I still hit six figures. All it takes is a couple paid off homes or small apartment building and you can retire. Not well off, but you don't have to worry about your next pay check.
Use the time off and income to your advantage. Don't just sit on your butts hoping it won't ever stop.
Or being a junior associate. Or doing document review. You want to know hell? Do document review.
I make more money, and I'm home more, than my colleagues who are practicing law. You can't imagine the shock I went through during law school to realize that commuting to reserve wasn't that bad.
My wife works for Cisco, she even works from home which is a huge benefit. Office jobs are full of political BS and cliques. It's not what it seems.
And without responding to every single post of the last 15 minutes, I will 100% acknowledge that being a pilot a major airline is most likely the best six figure career (least stress, most time off, highest work/life balance etc) that I could ever imagine... and that is why I and everyone else play the game on the bottom. Period dot, end of story.
Ive seen what my brother goes through in education, my girlfriend as a physcisian, my parents in finance, friends in tech, engineering etc, flying for a major beats all of it, but sometimes when I'm at the regional you really wonder if you'll make it and if you don't was it all worth it?
My brother and his ex were both adjuncts. A regional is the high life compared to that both in comp and quality of life.
What’s your basis on airlines and their future? The list surprised me a little.
So I mean, don't take this the wrong way, because I don't want to tell you that your concern about making it to an airline worth retiring at is unfounded, but...
The WORST thing that happens to you is that you know you've got a job with the guard for the next 12 years. By then you'll have either made it, or be so senior at your regional that it won't matter. You'll play grab ass for another 20 years while having every day off that you want, and then when you hit 60? That pension starts paying out.
There are guys out there who, through their own decisions, have no options. No degree, no other experience, no training, no nothing. Either they make it to an airline worth staying at, or they eventually become unemployed.
Pretty sure you'll be fine.
Oh and speaking of, are you only applying to the Big 3? Or do you have your applications out everywhere?
I somewhat agree, however I really want to make it to a company where the name on the side of the plane matches the one on the check. Getting Comaired or XJTed (where we both worked and both left after seeing the writing on the wall) is a real thing, and basically the only strike against your scenario, but it is the one that is most liable to keep me up at night. Applied to and regularly updating at everywhere except Allegiant, Frontier and Spirit. I have zero pride and zero reason to limit myself to the big 3.
There are days where I wish we had a "love" button like the Facespace.
Average conversation, even on the property, though:
"AW MAN THIS IS AWFUL RESERVE HERE SUCKS!!!!!!1one"
"Well, what have you done to better it?"
-blank stare-, or even better "well that's not MY responsibility" or "well what did you do about it?"
"Akshully (sic), ..."
We have met the enemy; it is us.
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