Am I reading this right....????

gay_pilot18

New Member
DELTA minimum Pilot requirements:

1.) Be at least twenty-one yrs. of age.

2.) Have graduated from four years degree program from a college or university accredited by a recognized accrediting organization. Post graduate education will be given favorable consideration.

3.) Hold a FAA commercial fixed-wing pilot license with an instrument rating.

Here is the the thing I can't believe:

4.) Have a minimum of 1,200 hrs. of total documented flight time with a minimum of 1,000 hrs. of fixed wing turboprop or turbofan.

Only 1,200 hours minimum hrs. to be hired with a mainline carrier. That's crazy and good
.

And before you all jump on me yes I know that there the just the minimum requirements. And it doesn't mean that your guaranteed emplyment if you meet the minimum requirements.

But I always thought that the minimum requirements for mainline carriers was like 3000-5000 hrs. tt. or more.

Anyways if you guys don't believe me check out the link to Delta.com

http://www.delta.com/inside/employment/pilot/index.jsp

I hope to hear from one and all.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
4.) Have a minimum of 1,200 hrs. of total documented flight time with a minimum of 1,000 hrs. of fixed wing turboprop or turbofan.
 

aloft

New Member
And they don't mean SIC. Basically, the only way you're gonna have 1200 TT and 1000 turbine PIC is if you're a) a military pilot, or b) Citationkid.
 

gay_pilot18

New Member
Okay yeah I hadn't forgotten that in addition to the 1,200 min. total time you needed 1000 turbine time. Which is why I included that bit of info in my original post.

But my point is that why is Delta only req. a minimum of 1,200 hrs. tt. That is what one would expect from a regional.

Example:

SkyWest 1000 hrs. tt 100 multi

Comair 1,200 tt 200 multi

ASA 1,200 tt 200 multi

Now I'm not complaining most definately not as maybe it means I could get in the right seat of a Delta plane all that quicker (yeah right).

But I have always been told that the majors required a s**t load of minimum hours you know somewhere in the ball park of 3000-5000 hrs. tt if not more. And keep in mind that is just the minimums.

So when I saw this on the website today I was blown away. Again most noteably because this is what the small time regionals are requiring right now.

And with the state of the economy the way it is (even thought DAL isn't hiring) I'd have thought they'd give in to supply & demand and up there minimums instead of dropping them.

Example: Southwest Airlines requiring that you be type rated in a B-737 prior to interview. Doing that kinda separated the wheat from the tare.

So my next question is. Does this mean the regional airlines will also drop there minimums back down to 500-700tt. (yeah fat chance) cause hmmmmm if Delta was hiring right now and I had 1500 hrs. and 1000 hrs. turbine time would I apply for Delta of Comair.

Well I'd apply for both actually but which one do you think I'd be more interested in?

Hey maybe "Superman" will chime in on this post....yes Doug that's you.
 

gay_pilot18

New Member
Okay "Aloft" so is what your saying is that if your F/O on a Comair RJ-700
And your "PF" for that particular leg you can't log that as PIC towards your 1,200 tt.? Are you saying that you have to be a captain to log PIC?

Please clarify thx.
 

aloft

New Member
Sorta.

As a CRJ FO, time as both 'PF' and 'PNF' count toward your total time, but unless you've got your ATP and a type rating for the CRJ, even the time you're 'PF' is logged as SIC, not PIC. In other words, the turbine PIC clock doesn't start until you upgrade to captain, which is why regional applicants are always interested in the wait for upgrades.
 

aloft

New Member
Don't give up hope just yet, young jedi; the majors aren't necessarily bound by their published mins--Doug said himself that even after 6 years at Delta, he still doesn't have 1000 hrs turbine PIC!
 

n2o2diver

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Sorta.

As a CRJ FO, time as both 'PF' and 'PNF' count toward your total time, but unless you've got your ATP and a type rating for the CRJ, even the time you're 'PF' is logged as SIC, not PIC. In other words, the turbine PIC clock doesn't start until you upgrade to captain, which is why regional applicants are always interested in the wait for upgrades.

[/ QUOTE ]

A pilot may log PIC flight time under the provisions of FAR 61.51(e):

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time.

(1) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person -

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated;

Doesn't say you have to have an ATP
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Delta does not have a PIC requirement that I know of. The 1000 turbine can be SIC.

Remember that those minimums were originally tailored to military pilots, in particular Navy.

It is not uncommon for major airlines to have low minimums, especially if they require an application fee. United's recruitment department was quite a profit center at $50 an application! Imagine getting 8000 applications a month - that's 400k.

Like you all have said, however, that's minimums for application, not to get hired. I am sure that most HR departments sort through the resumes and applications and select the most qualified in 90% of the cases.

Notice I said 90%. There is that 10% that have a "back door" or similar reason for consideration, such as interns and the like. There are a large number of United pilots who were hired with only 300 hrs. Yes I said 300 as in three hundred hours, not thousand.

I don't know how safe this was or how high the training success rate of those low time pilots were. However using any normal bell curve it is conceivable that a very small percentage of pilots are ready for the big leagues at 300 hrs.

Smaller airlines have high times to limit the number of applicants. They don't have the clout, the personnel or the facilities to handle large numbers. I have seen some of the "regionals" start to charge application fees and whaddya know, the minimums went down. Surprise surprise.
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
In the 121 world, you must have an ATP and be typed in the aircraft (should that aircraft require a type rating) to act as PIC. Not only that, only qualified captains can be PIC. To log time as PIC, it's not a PF/PNF thing... it is determined by whose name is on the release as the PIC. That person by signing the flight release is taking the responsibility for the flight.
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
[ QUOTE ]
And they don't mean SIC. Basically, the only way you're gonna have 1200 TT and 1000 turbine PIC is if you're a) a military pilot, or b) Citationkid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where does it say PIC?
 

pscraig

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And they don't mean SIC. Basically, the only way you're gonna have 1200 TT and 1000 turbine PIC is if you're a) a military pilot, or b) Citationkid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where does it say PIC?

[/ QUOTE ]

The letters PIC do not appear anywhere. They can be SIC hours.
 

I_Money

Moderator
Minimums and to be competitive are 2 different things - when Delta start to hire again you will some space shuttle landings to get hired.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
There was a guy with 1300 hours in the new hire class in front of me, but he was an Air Force Academy graduate, and all of his time was in the T-38 for UPT and F-16 when he was active duty.

But Iain is 100%, there's a world of difference between meeting the minimum qualifications and meeting the competitive qualifications.

When the majors start hiring again (and I know it seems like we'll have a Mars colony sooner), look for their minimums not to change much, but the competitive qualifications will be significantly higher.
 

PhotoPilot

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorta.

As a CRJ FO, time as both 'PF' and 'PNF' count toward your total time, but unless you've got your ATP and a type rating for the CRJ, even the time you're 'PF' is logged as SIC, not PIC. In other words, the turbine PIC clock doesn't start until you upgrade to captain, which is why regional applicants are always interested in the wait for upgrades.

[/ QUOTE ]

A pilot may log PIC flight time under the provisions of FAR 61.51(e):

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time.

(1) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person -

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated;

Doesn't say you have to have an ATP



[/ QUOTE ]

But (iii) of that same section says:

Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot-in-command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

61.51(e)(2) then says:

An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport certificate.

I take that to mean that if you're working for an air carrier whose opperating regs call for an ATP and a type, it doesn't matter if you're PF or PNF, without an ATP and a type, you're SIC.

How do the rest of you interpret it?

-PhotoPilot
 

gay_pilot18

New Member
Flight Experience:
2500 hours total or 1500 hours TURBINE total. Additionally, a minimum of 1000 hours in Turbine aircraft as the **Pilot in command, as defined by FAR PART I is required. Recency of experience is considered. Southwest considers only Pilot time in fixed wing aircraft. This specifically excludes simulator, helicopter, WSO, RIO, FE, NAV, EWO etc. NO other time is counted.*


I got that from WN's website Southwest to everyone else not firmilar with airline codes.

Anyways as per what "Aloft" said you can see the "Pilot in command, as defined by FAR PART I is required".

Anyone care to translate for me. Also I got my recreational pilots license with Sporties (never do flight training with them anyone ever) and I was 17. Didn't know I could get my PPL they ripped me off.

Anyways there was a guy in a class at Sporties before me that got hired with United as an F/O in the 737 with only about 300-500 hrs. tt.

At least that was the rumor but the program director did confirm that it was true so I have heard about that happening before.

But I'm glad that the majors and regionals aren't bound by there published minimums. So maybe I'll put in my application for pilot with a mainline carrier or regional sooner then I would have. When I have like 500-700 instead of like 1200-1500.

Still suprised tho that Doug has been with Delta for 6 yrs. and doesn't have 1000 hrs. of turbine time PIC.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I've been at UPS only 13 years and I only have 400 hours PIC turbine. It's not surprising if you understand that a few folks put lifestyle over money and defer the capt upgrade. I work no more than ten days out of 28 and still make well over six figures. If I was logging PIC turbine time, I'd be working much harder and my lifestyle would suck.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Still suprised tho that Doug has been with Delta for 6 yrs. and doesn't have 1000 hrs. of turbine time PIC.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not I!


I'm the king of SIC!
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
You think Delta is upgrading FOs to Captains in 6 years? Now?????

Someone doesn't understand seniority
 
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