Advise when able to copy a number...

JordanD

Honorary Member
#21
No life insurance. Health insurance, yes, because a catastrophic illness could not be paid for out of pocket. Again, that's what insurance is for: paying for things that you simply could not afford to pay out of pocket. If you can't afford to pay for 50 hours of attorneys' fees in the nearly zero probability that you're required to, then aviation probably isn't the hobby for you.
To be fair, the only time I really thought it would be something useful I was a broke CFI (tons of liability) and doing other professional flying jobs.
 

Cptnchia

Dissatisfied Customer
#23
No life insurance. Health insurance, yes, because a catastrophic illness could not be paid for out of pocket. Again, that's what insurance is for: paying for things that you simply could not afford to pay out of pocket. If you can't afford to pay for 50 hours of attorneys' fees in the nearly zero probability that you're required to, then aviation probably isn't the hobby for you.
Yeah, maybe for a single guy with no family, and only a hooker habit. The rest of reality has things like a wife and kids.
 

Cptnchia

Dissatisfied Customer
#25
I'm not sure what your breeding has to do with this discussion, but okay.
Because, people with families tend not to have large amounts of free money laying around, and need to think about others and not just themselves. We don’t expect you to know anything about that.
 

ATN_Pilot

Socialist Pig Member
#26
Because, people with families tend not to have large amounts of free money laying around, and need to think about others and not just themselves. We don’t expect you to know anything about that.
None of which has anything to do with this conversation, but okay.
 

ATN_Pilot

Socialist Pig Member
#28
Actually it's exactly why life insurance is important for someone who's income is what keeps the family financially stable.
Of course, and I haven't discouraged anyone from getting life insurance. He's arguing against arguments that have never been made. :)
 

Cptnchia

Dissatisfied Customer
#29
. If you can't afford to pay for 50 hours of attorneys' fees in the nearly zero probability that you're required to, then aviation probably isn't the hobby for you.
Of course, and I haven't discouraged anyone from getting life insurance. He's arguing against arguments that have never been made. :)
I’m arguing against your statement in your quote above. Most people with kids and a spouse don’t have $25K to $50K sitting around to pay for 50 hours of attorny’s fees, yet quite like aviation as a hobby. What I’m getting at is you have no clue as to the monetary needs of a family. Don’t you think your comment:

“then aviation probably isn't the hobby for you.”

Sounds on the elitist side? Maybe not to you, but to someone who has to balance a budget with a family, it does.

I don’t expect you to understand the argument. That’s OK.
 

ATN_Pilot

Socialist Pig Member
#30
I’m arguing against your statement in your quote above. Most people with kids and a spouse don’t have $25K to $50K sitting around to pay for 50 hours of attorny’s fees, yet quite like aviation as a hobby. What I’m getting at is you have no clue as to the monetary needs of a family. Don’t you think your comment:

“then aviation probably isn't the hobby for you.”

Sounds on the elitist side? Maybe not to you, but to someone who has to balance a budget with a family, it does.

I don’t expect you to understand the argument. That’s OK.
First, 50 hours of attorney's fees doesn't come anywhere close to $50k. It's aviation law, not D.C. white collar criminal law. When we had to pay for outside counsel on this stuff at our independent union pre-ALPA, we paid about $200/hr. That's $10k, or one-fifth what you surmised.

I don't much care if you think I sound "elitist." I encourage people to be financially responsible, and if you'd be financially devastated paying $10k in the extremely unlikely event that you'd need to, then modern general aviation is probably out of your price range. This isn't the 50s and you can't rent a 150 for $15/hr anymore.
 

learhawkerbe400

Well-Known Member
#31
First, 50 hours of attorney's fees doesn't come anywhere close to $50k. It's aviation law, not D.C. white collar criminal law. When we had to pay for outside counsel on this stuff at our independent union pre-ALPA, we paid about $200/hr. That's $10k, or one-fifth what you surmised.

I don't much care if you think I sound "elitist." I encourage people to be financially responsible, and if you'd be financially devastated paying $10k in the extremely unlikely event that you'd need to, then modern general aviation is probably out of your price range. This isn't the 50s and you can't rent a 150 for $15/hr anymore.
Agree. GA is gnarly expensive. If you can’t drop enough money to put a new engine (or 2) in your plane at the drop of a hat then you really can’t afford it.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
#32
First, 50 hours of attorney's fees doesn't come anywhere close to $50k. It's aviation law, not D.C. white collar criminal law. When we had to pay for outside counsel on this stuff at our independent union pre-ALPA, we paid about $200/hr. That's $10k, or one-fifth what you surmised.

I don't much care if you think I sound "elitist." I encourage people to be financially responsible, and if you'd be financially devastated paying $10k in the extremely unlikely event that you'd need to, then modern general aviation is probably out of your price range. This isn't the 50s and you can't rent a 150 for $15/hr anymore.
My hourly cost fixed and variable on my current airplane is currently at $24/hr. Even my certified airplane was only $66/hr. General aviation isn't only six figure planes with 15gph engines. Some of us know how to turn a wrench to. The vast majority of the people I fly with are forgoing in other areas in order to be able to fly and 10k would hurt financially for a long time. $99/yr to defend a multi million dollar career seems easy. If you're at a non-union shop, I couldn't imagine not having it.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
#33
Agree. GA is gnarly expensive. If you can’t drop enough money to put a new engine (or 2) in your plane at the drop of a hat then you really can’t afford it.
I disagree. GA is more than Cirrus and Mooney.
You can buy a T-cart for sub 20k, it burns about $12 an hour worth of gas and you can overhaul a c90 for 4k or so. If you're resourceful, you can overhaul those old continentals for under 1k.
 

learhawkerbe400

Well-Known Member
#34
I disagree. GA is more than Cirrus and Mooney.
You can buy a T-cart for sub 20k, it burns about $12 an hour worth of gas and you can overhaul a c90 for 4k or so. If you're resourceful, you can overhaul those old continentals for under 1k.
Yea true. I should have said GA for personal travel. I wasn’t thinking about putt around 2 seat airplanes.
 

ATN_Pilot

Socialist Pig Member
#36
I'm thinking there's a whole lot you're not factoring into your numbers. Just hangar space at most places in the country would cost about $50/hr if you figure 100 hours per year. Most private pilots would be hard pressed to arrive at $24/hr for insurance alone.
 

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
#37
I'm thinking there's a whole lot you're not factoring into your numbers. Just hangar space at most places in the country would cost about $50/hr if you figure 100 hours per year. Most private pilots would be hard pressed to arrive at $24/hr for insurance alone.
Where you live it can varied widely on hangar. We pay $120 a month for a T-hangar here but I know other people who pay $500 a month. Luckily where I live GA is more affordable than other areas.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
#39
I'm thinking there's a whole lot you're not factoring into your numbers. Just hangar space at most places in the country would cost about $50/hr if you figure 100 hours per year. Most private pilots would be hard pressed to arrive at $24/hr for insurance alone.
Almost no one has a hangar here. A few exist and because of demand it puts most of them into the 500k range. Businesses only really. My tie down is $40 a month. Most people self insure. The only thing truly expensive about a crash I might have would be the helicopter ride for the airplane. After that, I can rebuild the whole thing for a couple years of premiums. My monthly costs are mx, tie down and gas.
 
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