Adding night privileges to a Private ticket

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
So...
I taught a student who, due to one reason and another (mainly this area being hella scary for flying at night VFR) was issued a private pilot certificate with a no night flying restriction, under the Alaska exemption. We recently completed the night training per 61.109.a.2 (3 hours, 10 full stop landings, 100 NM total distance cross country).

How, exactly, do we go about getting this restriction removed? Another 8710 would be required I assume, but what about endorsements? I don't see anything in AC61-65 about this endorsement, and a quick search of The Google turns up nothing really helpful. I Ass-U-Me that all we'd have to do would be to take an 8710, his logbook, and perhaps an endorsement into the local FSDO, but I'm not real sure.
 

falcon20pilot

Well-Known Member
I had one of these several years ago. If I recall correctly I called the fsdo and explained the issue. They assigned me an inspector and he even had to consult with some others. He called me back and it was straight forward - I gave the training, filled out and 8710, and made up an endorsement referencing the particular regulations.
 

USMCmech

Well-Known Member
I had one of these several years ago. If I recall correctly I called the fsdo and explained the issue. They assigned me an inspector and he even had to consult with some others. He called me back and it was straight forward - I gave the training, filled out and 8710, and made up an endorsement referencing the particular regulations.
+1

I would assume that being from your neck of the woods (pun intended) that you are not the first guy to have this issue. The FSDO should be able to figure it out.
 

Houston

Well-Known Member
Here is what I find in the old John Lynch FAQ's. The reference is 14 CFR 61.110. (And yes, yes, yes, to the person who always has to say it, I know that now the lawyers are the only ones who can give legal opinions, but if you can find the answer from a lawyer, let us all know.)

Re: Questions Concerning § 61.110 of the Federal Aviation Regulations

Dear Mr. Ballew:

Tim Titus forwarded your email message to him regarding § 61.110 to me and asked me to respond.

As you know, § 61.110(b) provides, in relevant part, that a person who receives flight training in and resides in the State of Alaska but does not meet the night flight training requirements of this section: (1) may be issued a pilot certificate with a limitation “Night flying prohibited” and (2) must comply with the appropriate night flight training requirements of this subpart within the 12-calendar month period after the issuance of the pilot certificate. At the end of that period, the certificate will become invalid for use until the person complies with the appropriate night training requirements of this subpart.

The first question you posed was whether a person who added an ASES rating to his certificate (that was issued prior to August 7, 1997 with a night flying restriction) needed to comply with the night flying requirements within a year. You indicated that Allen Pinkston, AFS-640 said that he would have to satisfy the night flying training requirements. You asked if this was correct. Mr. Pinkston's statement is correct.

In the preamble to the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking that covered this particular regulation, the FAA stated:

“However, a person who has been issued a pilot certificate without meeting the night flying requirements of this proposal, prior to effective date of this rule, would be allowed to continue to hold that pilot certificate with the night flying limitation. If the person seeks an additional rating or higher pilot certificate level, the person would be required to comply with the night flying requirements that are appropriate to the pilot certificate level.”

Therefore, the person who adds a seaplane rating to his “old” certificate that has a night flying restriction must comply with the night flying training requirements. If he is takes his training in and resides in Alaska, he will have a period of one year from the date of issue of the “new” certificate in which to obtain the training. If he does not, his certificate is no longer valid. Any “grandfather privileges” are gone. If he did not take his training in and does not reside in Alaska, he must complete the night training prior to issuance of the new rating.

As to your other questions concerning lost certificates or change of address, the fact that the replacement certificate has a new issue date would not trigger a requirement to comply with the night flying training requirements as the pilot has not added an additional rating or obtained a higher certificate level. He is simply replacing his lost certificate or changing his address. During a ramp check were an inspector to question the validity of that certificate, the pilot should explain that his certificate was issued to replace a lost certificate or to change his address on a certificate that was actually issued prior to August 4, 1997. He also might consider keeping a copy of his correspondence requesting the duplicate or change of address.

You next asked about an individual who obtains a Private Pilot certificate ( I assume with ASEL rating) with the night flying prohibition and who, within a year, applies for and obtains an added rating (ASES). Then he gets an instrument rating, followed by an AMEL rating. At each stage, he is issued a new certificate with a new issue date. I understand your question to be “At what point does he have to comply with the night flying training requirements.

He must comply with the night flying training requirements for ASE within one year of the date he obtained the private pilot certificate. Once the ASE night flying training requirement is completed, e.g. for ASEL, there is no additional night training requirement for an ASES rating. Neither is there a night flying training requirement for the instrument rating. The night flying training requirements for the other additional rating, i.e., AME, must be obtained within one year of the date the AME additional rating is obtained. If he fails to comply with the night flying training requirement when each is due, his certificate will be invalid for use when the first due date is missed. Where the training was not timely obtained for earlier ratings, the fact that the certificate is invalid for use may not be apparent to anyone examining the certificate and looking only at the issue date. Absent examination of the pilot's logbook or some other investigation, discovery by anyone of the fact of invalidity is probably unlikely. Indeed, until a year has passed without any upgrade or added rating, the casual observer may have no indication that the certificate he is examining is invalid for use.

You also asked, “What about an individual who no longer resides in Alaska as required by FAR § 61.110? The regulation permits issuance of a restricted certificate to a person who takes his training in and resides in Alaska. The regulation permits a period of 12 months following issuance during which the person must get the night flying training. An individual who took his training in and was a legal resident of Alaska at the time he was issued the certificate with the “night flying prohibited” restriction based on § 61.110 who later changes his residency to another state within the 12 month period following issuance would still have until the end of the 12 month period to obtain the night flying training.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
The rule is pretty straightorward. The problem with the rule and the FAQ (aside from FAQ validity issues) is that it doesn't discuss the mechanics of getting the limitation removed - who to see; what to fill out. And I think that's what the OP was asking.

I don't know the answer to that. The reg suggest that nothing more than logging the training and presenting the logbook to an inspector or examiner is enough. But I'd be surprised if there wasn't other paperwork and falcon20pilot's answer strikes me as probably correct.

Best I can suggest is to call the local FSDO (which is the place it's going to be done) and ask what needs to be brought to them in order to have the restriction removed. If we're talking an Alaska FSDO, they probably deal with it all the time and can give you a quick, accurate answer.
 

Houston

Well-Known Member
As far as the "how to" part of the restriction removal, I go along with the advice other have already given about calling the FSDO. In today's environment, many FSDOs require an appointment. In this case, it's a good idea to get one because it gives the inspector a heads up on what is coming and time to find the answer.

I suspect that what will be needed is an FAA Form 8710-1. In the checked boxes at the top mark OTHER and write in "Restriction Removal". Also present a logbook with the required training and the usual photo identification. The inspector should issue a temporary certificate without the restriction and the plastic one should arrive later in the mail.
 

ppragman

Direct BATTY
We went Saturday night....no moon, but clear enough. Still eerie as hell flying the Lynn canal at night in a six pack.
You have a handheld right? I'd highly recommend you use that. This would be a good time to introduce instrument flying ;)
 
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