Add Enough Power... and a Brick will Fly.

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
We should know, by third grade, how lift works. We should know before we even start kindergarten about gravity.
And, at a practical level, I think most of us do. At least those of us who didn't lose our arms sticking them out the car window to make our hands fly.

The article addresses the fundamental lack of understanding of the particulars of the science/math behind why wings work. It really is still a mystery.
 

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
We should know, by third grade, how lift works. We should know before we even start kindergarten about gravity.
The article doesn't dispute that. It's that the current non-technical models of explanation are incomplete, and there is further research happening to rectify the understanding.
 

FloridaLarry

Well-Known Member
We should know, by third grade, how lift works. We should know before we even start kindergarten about gravity.
Good observations, from one non-parent to another.

The gravity bit, I get. Lift seems more obscure. How old were you when you first soloed?
 

msmspilot

Well-Known Member
Newton and Bernoulli’s equations are the same equations, only Bernoulli specifically did them for fluids rather than particle
I was a student at “Skyharvard”in the mid-90’s, where they had been hammering “Bernouille”for centuries, when suddenly we get told “Just kidding, it’s really Newton!”. Kinda’ threw me for a loop, as in “Wait, you guys have been building wings for a hundred years without really knowing how or why they work!?”

I do find it oddly curious that wing designs changed pretty dramatically after that.
I don't get the Newton vs Bernoulli argument because Newton and Bernoulli are the same equations, with the elements specified for solid particles or fluids, respectively.

"The Bernoulli equation can be derived by integrating Newton’s 2nd law along a streamline with gravitational and pressure forces as the only forces acting on a fluid element. Given that any energy exchanges result from conservative forces, the total energy along a streamline is constant and is simply swapped between potential and kinetic."

 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
Newton and Bernoulli’s equations are the same equations, only Bernoulli specifically did them for fluids rather than particle


I don't get the Newton vs Bernoulli argument because Newton and Bernoulli are the same equations, with the elements specified for solid particles or fluids, respectively.

"The Bernoulli equation can be derived by integrating Newton’s 2nd law along a streamline with gravitational and pressure forces as the only forces acting on a fluid element. Given that any energy exchanges result from conservative forces, the total energy along a streamline is constant and is simply swapped between potential and kinetic."

True. That's precisely the way I teach it in ground school.

However, there is is still this weird mystery of what sparks the process?? It's a wee bit like the question of the big bang. Chicken? Egg? Pancake?
 

inigo88

Composite-lover
I got to here and got pissed off...

B5ECC8C9-21B2-4BEE-A55B-7EC98B99AC4A.jpeg


:aghast: :aghast: :aghast: :aghast:

If only there were a NASA website we could use to fact check that statement? Oh wait...

E35D6FAD-E7F4-4279-84FC-63B5D1E2135C.jpeg


Note that CFIs routinely screw this up and preach “equal transit theory.” In reality the pressure is lower above the wing because the air is moving faster, but not because it has to “catch up” to hold hands with the molecules below it.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
I got to here and got pissed off...

View attachment 51547

:aghast: :aghast: :aghast: :aghast:

If only there were a NASA website we could use to fact check that statement? Oh wait...

View attachment 51548

Note that CFIs routinely screw this up and preach “equal transit theory.” In reality the pressure is lower above the wing because the air is moving faster, but not because it has to “catch up” to hold hands with the molecules below it.
I may be showing my ignorance, but isn't that delineation being pedantic?

The air isn't "catching up," it's accelerating because it's a compressed fluid...right?
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
I got to here and got pissed off...

View attachment 51547

:aghast: :aghast: :aghast: :aghast:

If only there were a NASA website we could use to fact check that statement? Oh wait...

View attachment 51548

Note that CFIs routinely screw this up and preach “equal transit theory.” In reality the pressure is lower above the wing because the air is moving faster, but not because it has to “catch up” to hold hands with the molecules below it.

Reminds me of one of my favorite Calvin and Hobbes.

 
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