Actual info on MAPD at Farmington

GaTechKid

Well-Known Member
Here's a few questions that I posed to sanwhiner over at MesaLounge about the program and his subsequent answers. After reading all the info I could off of the official site and posts here at JC and MesaLounge these are some of the questions I still had. Hope this helps anyone interested:

1) Do you hour build with a partner for the commercial rating?
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No. There's only 1 flight in the entire program where you are allowed to fly with another student. Every other flight is either solo or with an instructor.


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2) Does any sort of camaraderie develop between MAPD students?
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Tons! Most students who aren't married live with other MAPD'rs once on-line, and we help each other out as much as possible. When the 1900 crashed in CLT, there was an MAPD grad who was the FO. His whole class was at his funeral. There's tons of MAPD guys on-line now, and it's a common bond we all share, sort of like a fraternity. In an industry where it's all about who you know to walk your app in, it's good to know about 100 pilots on-line before you ever fly for Mesa. It's great to be able to walk into a crew room or though a terminal and you know as many guys in there as your Captain - a guy who's been with the comapny for 6 years.


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3) Just out of curiosity, what kept you busy between the time you finished San Juan and the time you went to GS? How did you keep current flying?
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Ooh! Do as I say, not as I do. I did investment banking while I waited to fly for Mesa. I flew a grand total of 3 hours (to keep instrument current) in the 13 months b/t getting hired and going to GS. I would recomend you fly a bit more often than I did. Make's the sim easier.


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Any reasons why you picked San Juan over other schools would be a help

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I did part 61 flying to get my private (was taught by a gal who went on to fly for Mesa, actually, as well as a Riddle grad). The instruction was pretty good, or so I thought. Then I went to MAPD. Instruction was WAY better, a huge difference. There's a reason that 350 hour grads can fly to the same level as 20,000 hour former 121 guys. There's no substitute for experience as far as situational awareness goes - they just 'know' what's going to happen before it happens, while I had to learn the ropes flying a jet into LGA and DCA, but it's not a coincidence that most MAPD grads can hack it with what would otherwise be regarded as 'unqualified' levels of experience. It's just like the US military - it's not the jets that allow the US to maintain air superiority, it's the training - US pilots are trained the best. In my opinion, MAPD guys recieve a similar caliber of training (not the same as military training, but a similar level of quality, just for a different application). I choose MAPD b/c of the interview. There's tons of schools that have 'relationships with airlines'. So freakin' what! Mesa and Commair are the ONLY 2 programs that are actually owned by the airline themselves and guarantee you the interview if you finish. You know you're being trained for airline flying b/c the airline is training you from the begining (don't go to Gulfstream - that will follow you for the rest of your life, that's all I'm gonna' say!) I choose MAPD over Commair b/c MAPD was cheaper, quicker, didn't have the politics of Commair, doesn't require the CFI, and it's really hard to find a single MAPD grad who wouldn't do it again if they had it to do over - Commair grads seem to always have to mention how much a$$ you have to kiss, issues with the financial aspects of the school (they take all your $ or something and it's hard to get it all back), and just generally have lots of negative feedback. I have very little negative to say about MAPD other than the location (FMN sucks) and that you are best served by keeping a low profile - I didn't, and I made it through fine, but . . . it's easier if you don't stand out, say little, and let your flying skills speak for you.

I think MAPD speaks for itself. Actions speak louder than words, and when you jumpseat on Southwest or jetBlue and the Captain says, "You're Mesa right? Did you go to thier flight training program in New Mexico?" and you say "Yes", it's very comforting to hear "So did I. My name's XY, here's my e-mail. Drop me a line when you get the hours to meet minimums." True story. It's all about connections.

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The biggest question that I have right now deals with hiring. I am still unclear on what happens to individuals who have a successful interview with Mesa but the airline is not hiring at that time(such as when Mesa had furloughs). How does the "hiring pool" work exactly?



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Well, I was hired in July 2002. Other people in my groundschool class at Mesa were hired as early as Dec. 2001 and as late as March 2003. All of us were told, "congratulations, you've been hired by Mesa. We are not currently running any groundschools right now. We will notify you if and when we start training for newhires again." It's standard pool action, honestly. You have a seniority # within the pool based on when you were hired and, if you came from MAPD, when you finished the program. I finished earlier, so I had a higher # than others who interviewed with me who finished after me, regardless of me being younger than them (and correspondingly, I was lower in seniority than all the people hired before me). Mesa called MAPD students in that order with the exception of one guy (A PACE guy who was flying for Great Lakes after he finished MAPD. He, along with some CFI guys not from MAPD with significantly more hours, were called before many of the MAPD guys who had finished before him. Since we all ended up in the same GS, we didn't question Lori as to why, and it's not like we had any say in the matter anyway. We're all just happy to finally be flying again).

So, I started MAPD in Jan 2001, and started working for Mesa by Aug. 2003. It took me 29 months to go from start to finish - pretty impressive when you consider that most airlines were furloughing aggressively for most of the time period. Had 9/11 not happened, I could have been with Mesa within 19 months.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
"There's a reason that 350 hour grads can fly to the same level as 20,000 hour former 121 guys"

Excuse me? That's about the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted at jetcareers. He just THINKS he's flying at the same level. I'll agree that those who graduate from MAPD meet the minimum standard to do the job....at least they are supposed to. But to suggest that a great training program can make a 350 hour pilot equal to someone with thousands of hours of part 121 flight time is absurd.

I have many friends who fly for Mesa and none of them needed to do MAPD. They worked their way up instructing.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
My friend that finished his classwork back in Nov finally got the call to come finish his JetSim time. I think he's heading out there for two weeks in the next month or so. I'll let everyone know how that goes next time I talk to him.
 

MissedApproach

Well-Known Member
As a MPD student myself, ditto to pretty much everything sanwhiner said...except this:
[ QUOTE ]
"There's a reason that 350 hour grads can fly to the same level as 20,000 hour former 121 guys"

[/ QUOTE ] Once he hits 20,000 hours himself, I'd be surprised to see him back up that statement!
 

GaTechKid

Well-Known Member
I don't know exactly what sanwhiner meant by that one sentence alone. When coupled with his next few sentences after I took the meaning to be that MAPD grads could keep up with 20,000 hour pilots on the flightdeck and be assets to the flight.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know exactly what sanwhiner meant by that one sentence alone. When coupled with his next few sentences after I took the meaning to be that MAPD grads could keep up with 20,000 hour pilots on the flightdeck and be assets to the flight.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the same SA, same judgement level, same amount of experience? Or does it mean that they can keep up on a checklist and raise/lower the gear/flaps when told?
 

aloft

New Member
I dunno...there's only so much finesse involved in "flying" an FMS head. The actual hand-flying portion of most Part 121 flights is rather brief in comparison. I've heard people say that like certain models of Citations, the average modern RJ really doesn't require two people to fly it safely and the FO is there simply to placate passengers, insurance companies and the FAA. In other words, being an RJ FO might be something of an apprenticeship, where you're simply learning to be a captain while busy reciting checklists, dropping/raising gear/flaps, and making radio calls.

Given this, I think the more valid comparison might be between 300 hr MAPD grads and 1200 hr CFIs with hundreds of hours repeating "right rudder" and "hold it off" ad nauseum. Yeah, instructing can make you a better pilot and yeah, you learn how to work with different types of people, but the carriers want finely-honed instrument and multiengine skills that don't remain sharp buzzing around the pattern in a 152. MAPDers don't even earn CFI tickets, so I suppose that says something about Mesa's preferences right there.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
HAHA...aloft

"I've heard people say that...the average modern RJ really doesn't require two people to fly it safely and the FO is there simply to placate passengers, insurance companies and the FAA"

Aloft, maybe when you have more than your instrument rating you'll be qualified to actually speak from experience rather than what you "heard people say". By the way, I've never heard anyone ever say that.

You're full of crap, you just don't know it yet.
 

aloft

New Member
Re: HAHA...aloft

Hey Don--how 'bout you regroup and post when you've actually got a cogent point to make. The only thing representing MY opinion in my post was my statement that MAPD might put a 300 hr pilot on a footing with a 1200 hr CFI, due to its focus being driven by Mesa's priorities. Attacking me ("you're full of crap, you just don't know it yet.") simply for restating something someone else said--and without offering a reasoned rebuttal of your own--is just mudslinging on your part.
 

FL270

New Member
Re: HAHA...aloft

Most modern airliners probably don't "need" two pilots in order to get the thing off the ground and back down again. That doesn't mean that the second pilot is superfluous or need not be qualified. The second pilot is there for safety ... to monitor the first pilot, assist in managing systems, look for traffic, and a hundred other things. That's why these airplanes are certified for two pilots, not because the FAA or the manufacturer determined that there were so many switches to flip, buttons to push, and levers to pull that you had to have four hands flying around the cockpit all the time. It's a safety issue, plain and simple. That's why you see Part 91 and 135 operators of turbine airplanes certified single-pilot operating them with two pilots. Insurance companies recognize that two-pilot operations have a superior safety record, so they "strongly encourage" people to operate these airplanes with two pilots.
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
Re: HAHA...aloft

FL270,
Well said, I would rather have two pilots in that cockpit when a real emergency came down...ILS
 

Vyse

BirchJet CA
Re: HAHA...aloft

I always thought the real reason for 2 pilots was so that one needed to go to the restroom, the other could fly the plane? <j/k>
 
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