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A news piece, or just another regional recruiting video...

Discussion in 'Airline Pilots' started by JDean3204, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. JDean3204

    JDean3204 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Airlines-Scrambling-to-Prevent-Pilot-Shortage-414903583.html

    This was posted on the other site and gave me a chuckle. Though some good points made, the usual facts were thrown out via the 1500 rule, aging airline pilots and cost of training etc etc...Then my favorite quote... "As long as American Airlines is hiring, Envoy pilots will have a seat at American....It's just that simple." Sounds like an attempt at local recruitment to me, given the location of the news station and airlines involved.
     
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  2. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

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    But it is true.

    9/11 screwed the flow system. Eagle guys from Spring 2001 are just starting at AA now, which means if you were 23 back then, you're 39 now starting at AA. Still not bad.

    Envoy has guaranteed slots for newhire pilots at AA as long as AA has newhire classes. And with their retirement numbers hitting 900+ every year for almost 10 years, it's about as close to a guaranteed thing you could get, barring severe Act of God events. But even then, with that many retirements I can't imagine furloughs lasting too long or hiring stopping for too long.
     
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  3. JDean3204

    JDean3204 Well-Known Member

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    It will work out great until they put a freeze on the flow because they don't want to kill their own feed. My guess is in four years, those airlines with W/O regionals will be poaching from other airlines in order to save their own feed. Unless they find a way to make their regional attract 400+ a year, which at that point will take more pay raises and bonuses that will all in all kill the regional industry due to increased labor costs... Or maybe that is what I'm hoping happens ;)
     
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  4. Derg

    Derg Naval Intelligence, MCRN Staff Member

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    Or just continue to decrease the feed and do your own flying. That's pretty much the future for some airlines.

    I seriously wouldn't expect a young pilot at a regional to actually retire from that regional.

    Also, any flow can go away tomorrow. Ask any Compass pilot.
     
  5. JDean3204

    JDean3204 Well-Known Member

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    That is why I laughed at the comment about a guaranteed seat at mainline if you choose XYZ regional over ABC regional. The flow is working for right now, but those that are flowing have been at the regionals for over 15 years. It will drop then AA will realize that flowing their own will hurt their feed. A few moves they have made make me question their thought process on the "big picture". While Delta has orders for the CS100, American is getting rid of the 190's that came from US Air. They continue to farm out flying to the WO's, that will only work for the next few years. The retirement numbers after 2020 are absolutely insane, so if there is growth on top of those retirements the legacies will be hiring like gangbusters. Airlines that are planning now for airframes that can take over the regional feed in house are the ones that will be better off in the future, the others will be scrambling for ideas on how to keep up. I have only been in the industry for a few years, and I know it only takes another war or terrorist attack to halt any growth in the industry, so I could be way off on my assumptions. The reason to choose a regional should not be flow, it should be the stability of that regional, QoL and the ability to live in base. Choosing Envoy because you live in base is a good idea, until they close that base in a few years, like they did with LAX, MIA, NYC... Nothing against Envoy, I know guys that fly there and they are great people, but they also told me to go elsewhere because of Envoys past of shutting bases down and AA redistributing routes between their feeders. That was before the new "incentive" package of course..:) Flow is a good plan B, but those who go to a regional with a flow should still be exploring other options and continuing to build their resumes for all possibilities at the next level. I don't think it would be wise to simply think... "I'm at Envoy therefore my career is set, I'll just sit here and wait for my number".

    *Edit : I think I may need to take an English class or two while finishing my degree. Sorry for all the commas and run on sentences!! :D
     
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  6. Maximillian_Jenius

    Maximillian_Jenius Super User

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    And let's not forget about...PARAGRAPHS, next time either! :) ;)
     
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  7. jynxyjoe

    jynxyjoe The Kickin' Chicken!

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    Did u do NaNoWriMo this year?
     
  8. Maximillian_Jenius

    Maximillian_Jenius Super User

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    No, IFR training and working three jobs to support my training have sucked all my free time.

    Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
     
  9. bimmerphile

    bimmerphile Open-Air Member

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    It's not hurting their feed, it's a controlled bleed (because they'd have attrition to other airlines, anyway).
    Move the highest paid envoy folks into the lowest paid AA ranks (they need the pilots anyway, right?)
    Keep those that don't have a degree around forever, because they've "got the flow," why would they want to spend all that money
    Dangle carrot for new recruits, pay them enough to write a check for training loans/feed themselves, and they'll show up

    Like J-Lo says, a flow don't cost a thing
     
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  10. Derg

    Derg Naval Intelligence, MCRN Staff Member

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    Oh Max.

    :)
     
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  11. JDean3204

    JDean3204 Well-Known Member

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    :D:D
     
  12. Kingairer

    Kingairer Well-Known Member

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    1000 a year is gangbusters already. The 190 going away is likely, but not a for sure thing. The CS100 at Delta I think are replacements for MD88s? Anyways, the total RJ fleet is reducing YOY at AA and everywhere else. Id treat envoy as a hedge, or that average girlfriend in Highschool. Sure shes fine and will do but if anything better comes along in the meantime, see ya.
     
  13. wheelsup

    wheelsup Well-Known Member

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    FYI AA Jan 2017 vs 2016 ASM (available seat mile) numbers

    Regional ASMs +8.2%
    Mainline ASMs +0.3%.
     
  14. USMCmech

    USMCmech Well-Known Member

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    I just finished my interview at Envoy.

    Envoy is being very proactive about recruiting. The guy who briefed us told us they are trying to hire 50-70 per month for the indefinite future. He said that recruiting pilots is what is going to determine who gets additional flying and bases. They reopened LGA, and hope to reopen more bases in the future as staffing permits. They are finally paying a living wage that, while not anywhere near mainline rates, a guy can feed his family for a few years. They are projecting a 2.5-3 year upgrade and a 5-6 year flow. This is based on mainline's attrition numbers, and seems realistic.

    The new Rotor Transition Program is a very smart move on Envoy's part to open up a huge new pool of applicants. Given the reality that the Army has more pilots than the Air Force and half the Navy and 80% of the USMC pilots are helo guys there is a huge market of qualified airmen. Using the VA benefits means that Envoy doesn't even have to foot much of the bill.

    The flow is a great asset to keep in your pocket, especially for guys like me who don't have a lot of connections at the majors. Currently the flow is taking a bunch of the senior guys creating a healthy amount of attrition from the top of the seniority list. Over the next couple of years, the flow will throttle back to 25% of AA's new hires so they won't bleed Envoy dry. AA's retirement numbers alone mean that AA isn't going to stop hiring for the foreseeable future. Envoy knows that they have to keep the flow going to keep recruiting going.


    That's the intell from the recruiter, take it with a large grain of slat, YMMV, ect.
     
  15. Kingairer

    Kingairer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah
     
  16. Gonzo

    Gonzo Well-Known Member

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    Wait a CA at Mesa is going to Envoy as a new hire?
     
  17. USMCmech

    USMCmech Well-Known Member

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    I left Mesa this past summer. I started working for a 141 school, but some political BS with the ownership caused me to resign. I wanted to stay local, so I went to Envoy.

    If I had stayed at Mesa, I would have upgraded in January, but would be making about the same as an Envoy new hire FO. Junior CA's at Mesa are NOT logging lots of PIC time because they are flying a lot right seat flights to cover all the open time.
     
  18. word302

    word302 Well-Known Member

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    They have been "projecting" those upgrade/flow numbers for over a year now. I have a hard time believing the hype.
     
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  19. Zapphod Beblebrox

    Zapphod Beblebrox Well-Known Member

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    For all those on this thread, I have heard that this is a contractual issue. That is the flow is in contract form between AA mainline and the wholly-owned carriers. Would a PSA, Piedmnot or Envoy pilot please post the applicable contractual language.
     
  20. jynxyjoe

    jynxyjoe The Kickin' Chicken!

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    Jeesh. Alright man, keep your head down working.
     

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