$75k to spend

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
The answer is simple.

Bellanca Super Viking.

160 knot cruise, 1,000 useful load and very fun to fly. Fits right into your budget.

N4201B 006.jpg
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
If I had *just a little more money* I'd very likely own one of these. I've been lusting after one for years. What a terrific XC machine.
A really misunderstood aircraft. I put a factory re-manufactured engine in mine last year so it’s good for for a couple more decades.
 
Last edited:

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
Those are awesome, but a wood and fabric airplane with retracts is kind of scary for a first airplane. Maybe for #2....
Any airplane I buy is going to be kept in a hangar so fabric wasn’t an issue. Wood has a lot of advantages over aluminum and plastic. Among them is a smooth ride, cheap to repair and it’s incredibly strong. The landing gear has an auto extend feature in case the pilot forgets to lower the gear. Having a good shop nearby is something one needs to be aware of.
 

Urp99

Well-Known Member
3X200= 600
6x50= 300
600+300=.......whoops.
Eh, the FAA has decided that everyone weights 170 lbs ... you were good! ;-)

Wood has a lot of advantages over aluminum and plastic. Among them is a smooth ride, cheap to repair and it’s incredibly strong.
I totally agree with you that wood has a lot of advantages, but it's only cheap to repair if you have a shop that knows how to work on it! Most aircraft mechanics and maintenance shops today have never seen a wooden airplane, much less worked on one. The Viking is an amazing airplane, but I'd encourage anyone that's interested in buying one to find a maintenance facility that's familiar with them before purchasing.
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
Anyone here have experience with a Beech Sierra? They aren't that fast, but faster than a 172, and a bunch of them have jump seats in the baggage compartment, which checks off the 6 pax capability for one of my potential partners. They are also pretty cheap, AOPA is selling one that has new P+I, a pair of G5's, a G650 GPS and they are asking $83k. I signed up for the Beech Aero Club, and from what I am reading on there, its not that expensive to maintain, especially compared to Bonanza's. I flew a 200hp Beech Sport (which is essentially a fixed gear Sierra) this past summer, and it flew very nice, was very comfortable in the front seats, and rode the bumps very well on a bubbly summer afternoon.
Someone already said this but I’ll say it again.

Parts for anything Beech are really expensive. I’m talking double and triple what other aircraft parts cost.
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
How much would missing log books from 1971 to 2000 detract from the value of an airplane? The prop and engine has been overhauled since then.
If the engine and prop had been overhauled since the logbooks were lost it might be worth looking at.

Have a good pre-buy done by a mechanic knowlegable in model and tell him to look for repaired damage. I would be concerned it might be two totals pieced back together. Look for unusual tire wear. Does it fly straight?
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
I totally agree with you that wood has a lot of advantages, but it's only cheap to repair if you have a shop that knows how to work on it! Most aircraft mechanics and maintenance shops today have never seen a wooden airplane, much less worked on one.
Yea, but how often does a plane need skin work short of an accident? Most I’ve seen were related to aluminum fatigue cracking but wood doesn’t fatigue so that’s not an issue.
 

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Yea, but how often does a plane need skin work short of an accident? Most I’ve seen were related to aluminum fatigue cracking but wood doesn’t fatigue so that’s not an issue.
It can rot, though - I suspect that is his bigger concern. Just a guess.

From what I've been reading, the newer coatings on fabric (stuff done in the last 10-15 years) is considerably more resistant to UV and weather damage vs. the stuff used in the 60s and 70s - to the point that it's perfectly okay to keep fabric-covered airplanes outdoors. I really don't know much about it, though. EDIT - that seems to be a concern for a lot of people out here (DC/NoVA area) where tiedowns are $150 a month and hangars can be $700-1000 depending on where they are. I keep telling myself that if I can't afford hangar space I can't really afford to own an airplane. But that may just be fear/rationalization in opposition. Not sure.

What kind of fuel burn do you get on 160kts TAS?
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
It can rot, though - I suspect that is his bigger concern. Just a guess.

From what I've been reading, the newer coatings on fabric (stuff done in the last 10-15 years) is considerably more resistant to UV and weather damage vs. the stuff used in the 60s and 70s - to the point that it's perfectly okay to keep fabric-covered airplanes outdoors. I really don't know much about it, though. EDIT - that seems to be a concern for a lot of people out here (DC/NoVA area) where tiedowns are $150 a month and hangars can be $700-1000 depending on where they are. I keep telling myself that if I can't afford hangar space I can't really afford to own an airplane. But that may just be fear/rationalization in opposition. Not sure.

What kind of fuel burn do you get on 160kts TAS?
The problem with newer covering systems is that they can outlast the structure underneath, depending on the climate. Think rusted out steel tubes and rotten wood.
 

Urp99

Well-Known Member
Yea, but how often does a plane need skin work short of an accident? Most I’ve seen were related to aluminum fatigue cracking but wood doesn’t fatigue so that’s not an issue.
Not often, I was simply addressing the claim that they're cheaper to repair. They can be given an experienced shop, but it's not gauranteed. Also, there might be a problem finding a shop willing to work on it, or willing to charge a fair price to do so. Most maintenance facilities are overbooked and understaffed, if they do take on a an aircraft they're not familiar with it'll take longer than it should to do the job, and that excess time will be passed along to the owner on the bill. Again, they're great airplanes, but I'd make sure I had my ducks in a row before I bought one.

The problem with newer covering systems is that they can outlast the structure underneath, depending on the climate. Think rusted out steel tubes and rotten wood.
^^^Also, this^^^
I had to ground a PA-22 that had structural corrosion several years ago. The aircraft had been hangared since restoration, and the cover job was about 20 years old. It looked and punched like new, but you could reach under the longerons with a right angle pick and punch holes right through the steel.
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
It can rot, though - I suspect that is his bigger concern. Just a guess.
Dry rot is caused by fresh water. As long as the wing is sealed, no openings water can penetrate, and drain holes open you'll never have a moisture issue. A bead of bathroom calking around the landing light frame and wing root fairings should be an AD but it's just smart maintenance.

IMG_2011 sm.jpg


The fabric will last a life time. My fabric is from 1975 with the exception of the belly and one flap from a runway excursion long before I owned it.

The rudder was recovered too, I only know this because it wasn't done correctly and in 2006 I had to fix it, drain hole wasn't added. Moisture got into the rudder and destroyed the METAL frame.

rudder rust.JPG


What kind of fuel burn do you get on 160kts TAS?
I don't really know. If I had to guess at 8,000 it would be about 17gph but I don't run it that hard at low altitudes. In SoCal we spend very little time below 10,000' because of the mountains surrounding the basin. At 11,500'/12,500' about 14gph ROP. I'm still working with GAMI on my injectors but running hard LOP above 10,000' mid to high 12's. If I pull the prop back to 2,400 rpm high 11's.

IMG_1915 sm.jpg
 
Last edited:

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
The problem with newer covering systems is that they can outlast the structure underneath, depending on the climate. Think rusted out steel tubes and rotten wood.
Very simple to detect.
Simply knocking on the wood with your knuckle it's very easy to hear dry rot.
Rust will cause a bulge in the fabric that can easily be seen.
 
Top