747-400 Engine out

framedforlife

New Member
your flying the Carmen 4 approach to Kennedy and suddenly in between the SIE and ACY vortacs you lose 3 of your 4 engines. Ditch in the ocean or land at KACY on Runway 31?
 

Polar742

All the responsibility none of the authority
That's an oddly specific scenario.

What did you do to lose 3 engines?
 

Alchemy

Partner, Ally, Friend
I'll bite.

I just flew that arrival last night in a 747-400; luckily all the engines kept turning.

The decision would depend on your altitude. Between SIE and ACY you would normally still be at about FL250, which gives you at least a very conservative 75NM range. ACY, WRI, and DOV would all be decent options, I guess.

You'd want to stay in the engine start envelope speed-range for a few minutes while you run the multiple engine flameout/stall checklist and attempt to get your failed engines running again. At some point, if you're unsuccessful, you'll slow to your drift down speed while you fly toward your selected diversionary airport. If you get one or more engines restarted, the airplane will be able to maintain altitude before hitting sea level so you gain more time.

On one engine obviously you're going to need to manage your energy very carefully, but most of your critical systems should be functioning normally. I don't see a need to resort to ditching unless you get into a situation where there's no alternative.

That's just my opinion. This isn't an oft-addressed scenario in 4 engine jets, because the odds that 3 would fail and you'd be unable to restart at least one of them are pretty slim.
 

Polar742

All the responsibility none of the authority
If it's light enough, it'll fly on one.

That being said, I can see the loss of 2 if one frags and damages the one next to it.

I can see loss of all 4 from ash or bad gas.
 

UAL747400

Well-Known Member
I'll bite.

I just flew that arrival last night in a 747-400; luckily all the engines kept turning.

The decision would depend on your altitude. Between SIE and ACY you would normally still be at about FL250, which gives you at least a very conservative 75NM range. ACY, WRI, and DOV would all be decent options, I guess.

You'd want to stay in the engine start envelope speed-range for a few minutes while you run the multiple engine flameout/stall checklist and attempt to get your failed engines running again. At some point, if you're unsuccessful, you'll slow to your drift down speed while you fly toward your selected diversionary airport. If you get one or more engines restarted, the airplane will be able to maintain altitude before hitting sea level so you gain more time.

On one engine obviously you're going to need to manage your energy very carefully, but most of your critical systems should be functioning normally. I don't see a need to resort to ditching unless you get into a situation where there's no alternative.

That's just my opinion. This isn't an oft-addressed scenario in 4 engine jets, because the odds that 3 would fail and you'd be unable to restart at least one of them are pretty slim.
Sounds easier said than done with something that big, and I imagine, isolated and numb.(?)
 

Polar742

All the responsibility none of the authority
Not that big of a deal. Usually descents are in flight idle.

If that oddly specific scenario occured there, I'd go with Alchemy's answer. Sureas hell wouldn't ditch.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
If that oddly specific scenario occured there, I'd go with Alchemy's answer. Sureas hell wouldn't ditch.
In pretty much ANY plane (except for one on floats I guess) I'd rather touch down on a runway that may not be long enough and plow off the end at a slow(er) airspeed than try to land on the backside of a wave.
 

crazyjaydawg

Well-Known Member

ljg

Well-Known Member
If it's light enough, it'll fly on one.

That being said, I can see the loss of 2 if one frags and damages the one next to it.

I can see loss of all 4 from ash or bad gas.
Just cuious...Do you guys have any 3EO data? Haven't seen anything anywhere. Driftdown for 2EO even at roughly 800,000 lbs and hot puts you at a level-off above 10k.

And you're right on - Speedbird lost all 4 over Jakarta and KLM lost all 4 over Anchorage due to ash.
 
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