737 Max Airliners Ordered Immediately Grounded in the US


Well-Known Member
This song was written by Tom Lehrer for the TV show This Was The Week That Was in the early 1960s. The rumor that Werner Von Braun sued Lehrer and received royalties is an urban myth.

See Lehrer perform it:
I (by way of my dad) have an album of his, "The Year that Was." It has a number of memorable songs! It's also funny how history repeats itself; see a current elementary student's math, then listen to "New Math."

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SuperCritical™ Member
So apparently Boeing waited til after Lion Air to let SWA know that the indicator light for AOA disagree was disabled. Wonder if they bothered to tell anyone else?

Haven't you heard? It was the pilots' fault, case closed. Thanks Dennis


Well-Known Member
Boeing is back to the old trusty bad pilot routine. I was going write a lot more summarizing what has been communicated to us about the latest but vacation laziness has completely taken root.

One thing though, the software updates contain three new things.

1) AOA dual channel redundancy and if the comparator has a disagree, no MCAS input
2) limit of MCAS travel and lockout if overridden by pilot trim input
3) MCAS trim input authority limited to not overpower elevator input

All I can think is finally, I will work with a machine that I can say is THREE LAWS SAFE.


Well-Known Member
Surprised much? Read “Flying the Line”.
Not surprised at all, and read them both.

I went through the whole USC Aviation Safety and Security program. Many of the instructors shared their experiences with Boeing during accident investigations. It was very interesting listening to them describe their experience with that company, and discussing how they react vs we as pilots think they should do.

Had the systems chair from the USAir 427 rudder hardcover give a lecture on that whole process. That and some others was very enlightening as to how that company reacts to safety regarding its products.

Autothrust Blue

"I'll take your case."
Anybody happen to have Boeing's latest 10-K or 10-Q? If you do, please look through it and let me know if you find any reference to "safety is our number one priority".... or for that matter, MCAS.
08:42 to 13:11 reminds me of Jeff Skilling...

Ask why, •!

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
So apparently Boeing waited til after Lion Air to let SWA know that the indicator light for AOA disagree was disabled. Wonder if they bothered to tell anyone else?

Yeah, and the crazy part is that SWA thought they were getting the working "system failure" light!!! 'Cause, you know, it was installed in the airplane. :) Problem was, though installed, it was not operational.

I've always been taught, and it has always been my understanding that an inoperative piece of equipment (display, warning light, etc) MUST be placarded as "INOP" when it's not working and not removed.

Butch Palmore

Just happy to be here.
I’m going to paraphrase the CEO but it seems like he’s saying “ Light, shmight! All the other indicators worked. “

He’s saying he’ll install the light but suggesting the pilots had everything they needed not to put it in the ground.

It makes sense. I’m climbing out on departure cleaning up and accelerating. The plane points itself down, (head smack and chuckle) gee wilikers its the gosh darn MCAS. Turn that thing off buddy!

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SuperCritical™ Member
Some unknown unknowns. It's fine. Stupid pilots.
Boeing pays a paltry sum as part of a settlement, we bury the dead and the economy moves along. The machine stops for no one