737-800 demonstrates soft field take off in Moscow.

Boris Badenov

Someone should definitely do *something*, Captain!
It does seem like Aero data's only goal is to use every inch of every runway.

And you get things like a stop margin of less than 100 feet. Ya, sure, that'll happen.
A lot of the Captains I've flown with so far kinda finesse the numbers if the stop margin is stupid. Or just say "Yeah, we're gonna use T/O on this one". There are advantages in flying for a smaller carrier...
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
A lot of the Captains I've flown with so far kinda finesse the numbers if the stop margin is stupid. Or just say "Yeah, we're gonna use T/O on this one". There are advantages in flying for a smaller carrier...
Color me confused, but doesn’t T/O mean takeoff power?
 

Boris Badenov

Someone should definitely do *something*, Captain!
Color me confused, but doesn’t T/O mean takeoff power?
There are de-rates termed "T/O 1" and "T/O 2". "T/O" is max takeoff power. This is on a 35 year old airplane, I'm sure the modern metal is even more complex. It's all new to me, too, as in the 135 world it was always max blast/radar power every time. Interesting sidenote, though, the guys I've been most impressed by don't do this as ops normal (although it seems like they could, as there's no obvious oversight from On High), because engine failures seem to happen most often on max-blast departures. The idea seems to be that you want to use derate power if the numbers say you can AND it's not stupid-close. But there's some room for the PIC to use a little bit of Judgment as to which danger is greater. Imagine that!
 

Stone Cold

Well-Known Member
Color me confused, but doesn’t T/O mean takeoff power?
Boris flies a different plane than I, but the premise is the same...

We have T/O, T/O 1, and T/O 2 settings, depending on runway, conditions, weight, aerodata, etc. The TO 1 and 2 are derated takeoff settings, meaning we're saving fuel and the engines, but can still lift off in those conditions.

We can always advance the thrust levers to get more power, or select T/O instead of T/O 1. So, saying they can select T/O means they aren't doing a derated takeoff. So the roundabout answer is yes, it means takeoff but not like you think.

Did that make sense?
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
Boris flies a different plane than I, but the premise is the same...

We have T/O, T/O 1, and T/O 2 settings, depending on runway, conditions, weight, aerodata, etc. The TO 1 and 2 are derated takeoff settings, meaning we're saving fuel and the engines, but can still lift off in those conditions.

We can always advance the thrust levers to get more power, or select T/O instead of T/O 1. So, saying they can select T/O means they aren't doing a derated takeoff. So the roundabout answer is yes, it means takeoff but not like you think.

Did that make sense?
Yep perfect sense. Never knew about the different settings, always assumed takeoff meant balls to the walls
 

Stone Cold

Well-Known Member
You wouldn't hardly be a Russian or a Ukranian or a Russkie-Experienced Expat if you didn't occasionally get out the old Dragunov and test your skills, I reckon!
Oh I'm a Russkie and Ukrainskie experienced expat. That's why I give him a hard time. Everybody remembers the Moscow days, but there were 2 years 4 months of Kiev time also, in the Lear 60. ;)
 

Stone Cold

Well-Known Member
You wouldn't hardly be a Russian or a Ukranian or a Russkie-Experienced Expat if you didn't occasionally get out the old Dragunov and test your skills, I reckon!
Plus, our St. Petersburg boss' last name was Kalishnikov. Not quite spelled the same, but it sounds cool. :biggrin:
 

Pilot Fighter

Well-Known Member
...because engine failures seem to happen most often on max-blast departures.
That makes sense but is there good data behind it? Curious if more folks are going full balls than the engine cobblers think and it's skewing the data. I imagine that's an SDU (ACARS) or other tattletale item.
 

Boris Badenov

Someone should definitely do *something*, Captain!
That makes sense but is there good data behind it? Curious if more folks are going full balls than the engine cobblers think and it's skewing the data. I imagine that's an SDU or other tattletale item.
None that I've seen. As I said, though, no one seems to go max blast unless the stop numbers are extremely dodgy. We have FOQA, but it is administered, so near as I can tell, extremely leniently. Which seems like a pretty good situation to me.
 
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