414 Crash

Boris Badenov

He comes to save the day in a broken truck.
Bob Hoover will be spoken about in hushed tones by my putative children, at the very least. The consummate Gentleman. The master of energy flying. A hell of a nice guy.

Clay Lacy? Who's that? The measure of a man, I've often been told, is what they say about him when he's not around. I reckon Bob Hoover will do well by that measure. Clay Lacy? Not so much.
 

Stinger

Well-Known Member
What? You’re familiar with the 1981 ATC strike right? That was the PATCO union and they absolutely crossed a picket line.

And maybe it’s different cause I’m in the northeast and stinger is in Texas, but the PATCO guys I know absolutely have not forgiven those who crossed.
Yeah I've only ever worked central and western...my first facility had under 10% union membership when I got in.
 

knot4u

Repeat Offender
Bob Hoover will be spoken about in hushed tones by my putative children, at the very least. The consummate Gentleman. The master of energy flying. A hell of a nice guy.

Clay Lacy? Who's that? The measure of a man, I've often been told, is what they say about him when he's not around. I reckon Bob Hoover will do well by that measure. Clay Lacy? Not so much.
I was lucky enough to have been able to talk to Bob Hoover on several occasions, away from any crowds or lines of people wanting an autograph, and he was the southern gentleman everyone says he was. He is a legend for many reasons, one of which was stealing an FW190 during an escape when he was a POW during WWII. The man had balls, talent, integrity and grace. Guess where they held the ceremony celebrating his life after he passed away.
 

Pilot Fighter

Well-Known Member
I’m PATCO class of ‘81 and I hate scabs.
While I can't imagine crossing a picket line to work, the PATCO strike is unique in that it was inarguably illegal and those that struck were clearly violating their oath.

"I am not participating in any strike against the Government of the United States or any agency thereof, and I will not so participate while an employee of the Government of the United States or any agency thereof. "

Beyond that, I would have struggled to ignore Reagan's threat. He had the law on his side and ... he was Reagan.

I have a hard time comparing this with the legal actions of pilot unions.
 
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DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I don't know. I work for a greedy corporation as do most all professional pilots. The RLA is the way they push back against the unions and we all know how that goes. And it's all legit. Some bigwig ALPA guy on here once said I should be praising the RLA or something cause it was best for me. I don't read him anymore.

If ATC, an FAA government job, is held to a "no strike" standard, but the employer acts like a typical greedy corporation, then I'd say they should have the same collective bargaining rights the RLA provides, at least. It's only fair.
 

Pilot Fighter

Well-Known Member
If ATC, an FAA government job, is held to a "no strike" standard, but the employer acts like a typical greedy corporation, then I'd say they should have the same collective bargaining rights the RLA provides, at least. It's only fair.
I agree, non-military government workers should have the right to unionize and strike.

The motivation for my post was to explain that the PATCO strike was a different animal than any strikes we've seen by pilot unions.

At risk of criticism, I'm not sure what I would have done. I'm kind of a law and order guy with some romantic ideas about oaths. That said, I probably wouldn't have crossed the PATCO line. Like many, I would have rolled the dice and called Reagan's bluff. Given the illegality of the strike, I think I would have a tougher time condemning and shunning PATCO scabs, in perpetuity.
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
Beyond that, I would have struggled to ignore Reagan's threat. He had the law on his side and ... he was Reagan.
Well you have to remember at the time, the unions thought Reagan was pro labor, both from promises he made while campaigning and the fact he lead the Screen Actors Guild through a strike.

As for the strike itself, I think PATCO asked for too much at the wrong time. They kind of painted themselves into a corner where even though Reagan actually did negotiate behind the scenes, the union had elected hard liners just before the strike and they felt they couldn’t back down. You should read the book Collision Course. Very interesting and informative about the strike, it’s beginnings and aftermatch.
 

Pilot Fighter

Well-Known Member
Well you have to remember at the time, the unions thought Reagan was pro labor, both from promises he made while campaigning and the fact he lead the Screen Actors Guild through a strike.

As for the strike itself, I think PATCO asked for too much at the wrong time. They kind of painted themselves into a corner where even though Reagan actually did negotiate behind the scenes, the union had elected hard liners just before the strike and they felt they couldn’t back down. You should read the book Collision Course. Very interesting and informative about the strike, it’s beginnings and aftermatch.
Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll check it out.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
If by "old guy" you mean "self centered ass, who put his own gratification above that of his fellow brothers and sisters", then, maybe. Otherwise... no. His pilot skills have zero bearing on anything the second he walked over the line.

And honestly, i don't know of a 121 pilot out there who dislikes somebody because they are a "better pilot". I know guys who dislike other pilots because they are wealthier or have a hot spouse or a cool boat, or travel a lot or have kids that got into better schools... but not because of how good a pilot they might be. What does that even mean?
Generally the only pilots I don’t like are the tremendously idiotic ones that bring their “kink” to work and are unable to at least fake being relatively normal for an entire trip.

I flew with a guy who literally wouldn’t shut up about his weird middle-aged paranoid conspiracy theories, hyper religious and “Buy Iraqi Dinars, NOW NOW NOW! Read this book!” and sadly, he’s still this way now.

So whenever I see him, I mess with him:

“Hey bro”

“I”m not your brother, (name), but Wakana Forever. You don’t need to acknowledge my proximity”

The “Wakanda Forever” just further confuses him because none of my pilot buddies comes from a Caribbean nation that speaks a version of French Creole, he was eavesdropping so we started speaking French just to mess with him.
 

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
That is not correct.

I’m PATCO class of ‘81 and I hate scabs. My former best friend ran in and got hired to scab on us. I’ve not talked to him since.

Lacy flew the Chino Airshow until a couple years ago, him being there rubbed me the wrong way.
Sorry pal but PATCO was an ILLEGAL strike , you guys knew it and you rolled the dice and you lost , crossing a picket line of an illegal jobs action or strike against the Federal Gov dose not make you a scab , you wanna be pissed at someone be pissed at Robert Poli !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
Sorry pal but PATCO was an ILLEGAL strike , you guys knew it and you rolled the dice and you lost , crossing a picket line of an illegal jobs action or strike against the Federal Gov dose not make you a scab , you wanna be pissed at someone be pissed at Robert Poli !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well that was the White House party line. Some still believe the President today.
 

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
Well that was the White House party line. Some still believe the President today.
Bull Crap you knew when you took your Oath you could not strike against the Federal Gov it had been law since FDR times , Poli lied to the membership and you ate his tripe up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
Bull Crap you knew when you took your Oath you could not strike against the Federal Gov it had been law since FDR times , Poli lied to the membership and you ate his tripe up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I took an oath?
 

greg1016

Trustworthy Source
Sorry pal but PATCO was an ILLEGAL strike , you guys knew it and you rolled the dice and you lost , crossing a picket line of an illegal jobs action or strike against the Federal Gov dose not make you a scab , you wanna be pissed at someone be pissed at Robert Poli !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#triggered
 

texas_pilot

Well-Known Member
Yeah I've only ever worked central and western...my first facility had under 10% union membership when I got in.
My aunts husband got canned in Tx
,
My Dad said jump in- were non union here, the aunts ex is LEO dispatcher and I never crossed a line.
Although Mo money-
Naw, I got too many white% hairs anyway
 

MaRiO FDZ

Han Solo is NOT dead!!
Don’t the 414/421 have a history of an exhaust clamp failing, tail pipe falling off and super hot turbine air subsequently igniting the fuel and the wing spar fairly promptly being blow torched in half?

Edit: the first turbo-normalized bonanzas had a similar thing. I remember a suggested preflight check being to grab the tail pipe and feel for excess wiggle. If found, check for a tailpipe crack or your feet might get real hot inflight.
They DO have an AD for every 50 hour inspection on all exhaust pipes components
 
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Richman

Well-Known Member
They DO have an AD for every 50 hour inspection on all exhaust pipes components
Twin Cessnas have an uncommon turbo setup. The turbo is mounted to the airframe rather than the engine, so the exhaust is fairly complicated with slip joint and whatnot.

Good MX is the key, but if in good shape not that much of an issue.
 
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