414 Crash

ppragman

Direct BATTY
I disagree. All of those things are possible but not necessarily any more probable than the opposite outcome. I appreciate working with older pilots, most of the ego has dissipated and they just want to get things done.
This isn't how statistics works though...

Edit to add:. I like working with old guys -even the ones who suck have a lot to teach by virtue of being alive longer - but I'll be honest, the ones who are really sharp are less the rule and more the exception.
 

knot4u

Repeat Offender
This isn't how statistics works though...

Edit to add:. I like working with old guys -even the ones who suck have a lot to teach by virtue of being alive longer - but I'll be honest, the ones who are really sharp are less the rule and more the exception.
Statistics are for insurance companies, I prefer to live based on my personal experience and actual interactions with people, a person that resembles an anus is usually spotted quickly.
 

ppragman

Direct BATTY
Statistics are for insurance companies, I prefer to live based on my personal experience and actual interactions with people, a person that resembles an anus is usually spotted quickly.
That's fair - and obviously don't prejudge people...

But stats are for more than insurance companies. It's important to realize that most of our performance and interactions with people occur around the "mean." By definition most pilots are average, and the "really good" old guys may be truly exemplary when corrected for age.

This ain't Lake Woebegone - all the children are not above average. There's a reason the FAA limits the age of pilots and controllers. It's because of the average performance - not because of the ones that are exemplary.
 

Richman

Well-Known Member
Everyone has a story of a 95-year old who can run Ironman triathlons, but the closest thing we have to a God on this rock we inhabit is the law of central tendency. That acne on your Tinder date's ass might not be an STD, that pitbull rescued from a drug house might not maul your kid, and your wife's best friend insisting she host a party at your house might not be trying to suck her into a pyramid scheme ...

...but probably not.
You left out “got hired at a major without a degree”...
 

knot4u

Repeat Offender
That's fair - and obviously don't prejudge people...

But stats are for more than insurance companies. It's important to realize that most of our performance and interactions with people occur around the "mean." By definition most pilots are average, and the "really good" old guys may be truly exemplary when corrected for age.

This ain't Lake Woebegone - all the children are not above average. There's a reason the FAA limits the age of pilots and controllers. It's because of the average performance - not because of the ones that are exemplary.
I should point out that I've never worked 121, the majority of my experience has been 135/91 jets. The pilots in this segment aren't restricted by the age 65 rules. I did work for a company about 15 years ago that had an older G-IV captain, that I liked working with, that passed away at the hotel in Hawaii completely unexpectedly. It was shock to all of us, and trying to figure out how to transport the body back in the airplane was something we'd not done in the past. I can understand the reasoning behind the age restriction in 121, and I don't disagree with it.
 

WacoFan

Bigly
I think it's crazy to fly at that age alone. Assuming a successful life, once I hit 65 I'm done flying at the airlines and in general. If I have an itch to fly a small Cessna/Piper, I won't go solo at that age. I'd take a CFI/safety pilot/private pilot along.
Harold Neumann was well into his 70's and still competing in his Monocoupe in IAC aerobatic competitions. He was in his 80's when he quit flying. I saw his fly Jim Younkins exact replica of Mr. Mulligan when it debuted at Blakesburg (1982 I believe)...and he tore up the field. He did an entire circuit at racing height and pylon turns in the Mulligan and it was amazing to watch a 76 year old wrestle that beast around like he did in the Thompson Trophy race in 1935. "Bite" Livingston (Johnny Livingston's brother) was well into his 80's and still flying his T-craft to Blakesburg every year for the fly-in. Franny Roarke gave me a ride in his Travel Air 2000 when he was 80 - it remains my only ride in an OX-5 powered plane. Those guys were kind of Gods, but still.
 

knot4u

Repeat Offender
I will bring up the one who shall not be named, Clay Lacy. I haven't worked for or had any contact with him in over a decade. Apparently he has stopped flying, he's easily in his 80s now, this info was passed along to me by someone in close proximity to him. He flew well into his 70s and was performing airshow acts in a Lear 23. I'm glad he finally decided to hang it up, bit it's a little bittersweet. I'm afraid without it he'll just fade away and die, and that would make me sad. I know a lot people hate him, but if you ever got to know him he's a good man.
 

ppragman

Direct BATTY
I will bring up the one who shall not be named, Clay Lacy. I haven't worked for or had any contact with him in over a decade. Apparently he has stopped flying, he's easily in his 80s now, this info was passed along to me by someone in close proximity to him. He flew well into his 70s and was performing airshow acts in a Lear 23. I'm glad he finally decided to hang it up, bit it's a little bittersweet. I'm afraid without it he'll just fade away and die, and that would make me sad. I know a lot people hate him, but if you ever got to know him he's a good man.
Isn't he a scab?
 

Apophis

Resident Iconoclast
I will bring up the one who shall not be named, Clay Lacy. I haven't worked for or had any contact with him in over a decade. Apparently he has stopped flying, he's easily in his 80s now, this info was passed along to me by someone in close proximity to him. He flew well into his 70s and was performing airshow acts in a Lear 23. I'm glad he finally decided to hang it up, bit it's a little bittersweet. I'm afraid without it he'll just fade away and die, and that would make me sad. I know a lot people hate him, but if you ever got to know him he's a good man.
He voluntarily crossed a picket line. That basically negates this entire sentence. He's a scab.
 

Stinger

Well-Known Member
He voluntarily crossed a picket line. That basically negates this entire sentence. He's a scab.
I know controllers that were fired during the ATC strike in 1981, and also those that either went back into work / kept going into work.
None of them seem to hold any grudges towards those that stayed at work and don't have as strong an opinion about it as pilots on here.
 

nibake

Powder hound
Remember: It's always ok to have your own opinion and think freely unless your ideas contradict the mob.

What I'm reading here is there are a bunch of thugs who are bitching about someone, most likely upset because an old guy was a better pilot than them.
 

knot4u

Repeat Offender
He voluntarily crossed a picket line. That basically negates this entire sentence. He's a scab.
True. And he'll never be forgiven, but having spent some time with him I dispute the fact that he isn't a good man, he didn't make a fortune as an airline pilot. But he did build a company that employs a lot of people outside of the airlines.
 
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