172R/172SP Be Careful And Verify

DrBenny

New Member
I've finished creating my own checklists for these two planes. It was actually quite difficult to do and took several hours over a few days. The main difficulty stems from the similarities between the two POHs.

My sources were 1) both POHs, 2) two local flight school checklists for the same aircraft, and 3) what I need in a checklist (things from my experience).

I highly recommend pilots make their own checklists, as it is an excellent way to get you head in the POH.

For instance, one of the local flight schools listed the 172R's Vx at 60. But upon detailed reading of the POH, I find that this is the no-flaps speed. Usually we perform Vx as a short field or maximum takeoff maneuver with 10 degrees, and that airspeed is different. READ THE POH! DON'T TRUST UNVETTED CHECKLISTS!
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
I highly recomend you DONT make your own checklist with your own additions and subtractions.
 

DrBenny

New Member
So I should just go with the school checklist that says things like "Carb Heat--OFF" for the 172R/SP? No, thanks--I think I'll double and triple check.
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Most schools make up their own checklists. The manufacturer's check lists are merely "suggested."

Lawyers, you know.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
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I highly recomend you DONT make your own checklist with your own additions and subtractions.

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Why not? If you read and understand what you're doing you can come up with something that works and follows a logical flow pattern.

I am personally a fan of those surecheck checklists.
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
Yup,
Just came across this with our local DE. We have three C-172N models, a 1979 and two 1980's. The short field takeoff for the 79 is no flaps.. climb out at 59. The short field for the 1980 model is flaps 10, lift off at 48 and climb out at 53 (assume MGW).

The mistake I had made was I simply assumed that the 1980 way was better and had retro-actively applied it to the 1979. While our DE agreed with my logic, his point was well made that not only are we teaching people to fly, but to also use the POH as well...
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
Yes most schools make their own checklists, but those that do it well have many sets of experienced eyes go over them. Deciding what numbers are accurate and which flap settings etc that you are going to use at the private pilot level is not a good idea IMO.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
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I highly recommend you DONT make your own checklist with your own additions and subtractions.

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely. I'll stick with the Cessna POH and then taxi back after the plugs are fouled from the taxi at full rich. Or better yet, go full rich for landing and get to practice those engine-out landings.
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
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but those that do it well have many sets of experienced eyes go over them.

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You are assuming way too much!

Most of them are done by a committee, and no one can agree on anything. The speeds should not be changed anyway, as the manufacturers recommended speeds are almost legally binding, and would be if the lawyers hadn't messed it up.

But things like carb heat, cowl flaps, etc. are often determined by the chief mechanic. They will frequently ask us to change checklists for maintenance reasons.
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
When you start doing things contrary to a POH you become a test pilot at the private pilot level. Not somewhere I would want to be as your passenger.

John, I said those who do it WELL have experienced sets of eyes reviewing them. Im well aware that in some cases flight school throw 152 checklist in a 172 with the idea, Oh they are close enough, for example.

Can anyone see how a newly certified pilot making up procedures is dangerous???
 

NJA_Capt

Well-Known Member
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I'll stick with the Cessna POH and then taxi back after the plugs are fouled from the taxi at full rich. Or better yet, go full rich for landing and get to practice those engine-out landings.

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I have been flying with the Cessna checklist for 19 years and have never had a problem with the plugs fouling at full rich nor engine outs on landing (not at high altitudes though). We currently have two SELs, one with Lycoming the other Continental-Not a problem.

Use the Manufacturer checklist. An insurance "attorney" would have a field day with a claim that has a "homemaid" checklist.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Well in some cases it's nearly required that you make one.

Try finding a checklist for a PA-23 160G. The POH itself is only 1/4" thick! Yes, I know there are a few out there but they are so generic that they are, by default, nearly useless. There were three "versions" of the Apache. Standard, Custom and Super Custom. Add in 40 years of maintenance, feild approvals, STCs, avionics changes, airframe mods (as in the Geronimo mods) and you end up with an aircraft that is very similar but very different from every other PA-23 (150/160/235/250).

I see nothing wrong with "making" your own checklist. Provided that all you are doing is taking information from the POH and re-ordering it in a way that makes for a better flow pattern for yourself. No speeds should be changed, no flap setting or cowlflap or whatever settings should be altered. Only the order of the information.

I made one for the 172R while I was doing my private. Why? So I could study the checklist and be more familiar with the aircraft. I nearly copied the school's checklist exactly and only used information form that and the POH. I did not, in any way, alter any of the values. I had my CFI look it over and he was cool with it.

I believe that making a checklist is a great way to get someone into the POH and learning systems and procedures - provided it is supervised in some way.

But again - it is only an excercise in re-ordering the information provided by the POH and checklist provided by the school. But in the end one ends up with a document that makes sense to them and they can take to any FBO and use in the same type/model aircraft (for renters).
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
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(not at high altitudes though).

[/ QUOTE ] That's where I fly.

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Use the Manufacturer checklist. An insurance "attorney" would have a field day with a claim that has a "homemaid" checklist.

[/ QUOTE ]Can you tell me about =one= case in which this happened? Something on the level of "The engine quit enroute. Too bad. But you added "Landing Lights On" to your pre-takeoff checklist. You lose."

No, I'm not being facetious. Obviously, if you make a change that =causes= the problem, you have a problem. Just like if you do anything that is contrary to proper aircraft operation, whether or not it's in the checklist (like running around full rich around here).

But that's not a reason fro avoiding the excellent learning opportunity afforded by creating your own checklist that enhances the POH one. "Rolling my own" is the very first thing I do as part of learning to fly an new type of airplane.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
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I believe that making a checklist is a great way to get someone into the POH and learning systems and procedures

[/ QUOTE ]And that is the bottom line. Overall, I'd bet that folks who write their own checklists know more about the airplane than those who don't.
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
I think the People who wrote the POH know more about the airplane then one of read the POH.


Midlifer, you are talking about techniques. There is no problem in changing your technique while also following a set procedure. A case in point would be your mixture at highalt airport example.

Im not trying to start a riot here folks. Im just stating that you are on dangerous ground when you start inventing checklists. I agree with NJCapt when he spoke of the lawters also.If you add Transponder...ALT to your checklist b/c the POH didnt have it, fine. But when you start making checklist at home, and then possibly forgetting things like FUEL PUMP...ON. Thats dangerous! Or even worse, changing Softfeild procedures with flap settings and speeds.
 

DrBenny

New Member
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When you start doing things contrary to a POH you become a test pilot at the private pilot level. Not somewhere I would want to be as your passenger.

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Now, where did I say I was making a list that contradicted the POH? Note that I said I was using two POH's as my source. Neither am I subtracting anything from the list. I am using the POH, taking out errors from the flight school lists, and adding things like "Clearance- - - -COPIED." Another example is adding a third check of the circuit breakers. I'm not deleting anything.
 
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