• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.

121 crosswind landing technique

Inverted

“Everything has a little suck in it”
On a descend via STAR, with speed restrictions, it won't hit the speed always as it has the bracketed speed region. It seems silly that you have to select a speed instead of letting managed just do its thing, especially when there are a bunch of speed changes on the arrival.
I found this funny too. Most just let it fly in the bracket and if it’s fast or slow oh well. Kinda like ALTCRZ, I just accept it as a soft mode to allow a smoother operation in that mode.
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
Ugh... I'm going to have to throw out the commandments like @CFIscare made me do.

1. geometric VNAV- the VNAV functions identical to the 757. Idle path first, then geometric. HOWEVER, unlike the 757, you can create a new idle path by making the hamster spin the wheels again. Put in the cost index again, put in a speed in DES, go direct to somwhere... just make the hamster go to work.

2. How does an HSI on the ND not count since the ND is the HSI?

3. Ok, no real need with FBW... rudder trim is fully functional when hand flying and I use it frequently. Most don't realize it's there and usable, though due to the voodoo factor that awacs bought into.

4. Sure the thrust levers move. I moved them both forward AND backward last time I flew the plane!

5. Yep. That is what throws people off. It is rare for me to fly an approach with A/THR engaged. They are short throw and super responsive. My Boeing/Douglas/Canadair background is when the AP comes off, I turn off the A/THR... guess what works well on the bus? She is a beautiful flying plane and super responsive in all areas. Why not enjoy how well she works with it all off?

6. GS MINI is something I came to embrace. I overrode it a couple times with terrible results. just plopped the thing on instead of the usual grease job. GS MINI replaces the Boeing additives in a more active manner. It works.
Do you know why Airbus pilots get stuffed in lockers in middle school? This is why Airbus pilots get stuffed in lockers in middle school.

I know how this stuff works, I just think it's weird. And honestly, I find it funny that we can, on this forum, go from endorsing Freedom Fries, and then a few years later say, "But wait, the French did this other really weird thing...AND IT'S TOTALLY AWESOME!"

So allow me to respond to a few things as the Resident Airbus Hater.

I don't like the HSI being on the ND, and the reason I say it doesn't count, is because it's a primary navigation instrument. The HSI is below the AI on every single airplane made since about the 1940's, but NOOOOOO, not on the Airbus. The thing belongs on the PFD, like every other airplane in the world. Do you know how ubiquitous this placement is? The Space Shuttle had an HSI below the attitude indicator. If it's good enough for America's Space Eagle, it's good enough for me.

Also, I love the argument that since FBW exists, trim doesn't need to. It is not REQUIRED to exist, but there are plenty of FBW planes out there with elevator and aileron trim, specifically Boeing, EMB and Bombardier. Airbus is, without question, the outlier here. And it's not because you CAN'T do it the way Airbus has the aircraft setup, because clearly you can. It's that it's WEIRD. Not unflyable, just weird. You know what's weird about it? Airbus decided that since The United States of Freedom created manned, fixed wing flight, and then perfected how to make the flight controls work, that Airbus couldn't POSSIBLY follow in the footsteps of those simpleton Americans. No, instead of the stick commanding flight control deflection, the stick would control RATE! Because nous sommes les français!!!

But in the end, the boss tells me to fly the Airbus, so I figure out how to curse in French and learn to accept that the Cult Of Airbus will become mortally insulted if anyone ever says, "Yeah, I get how it works, but that's really strange," or said in French, "Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de conard d'encule de ta mere."

EDIT: Also, regarding the thing reverting from DES to VS without being commanded to do so, I couldn't tell you why it does it, but it does. Could be a software thing with the planes we have, but it only seems to do it when in a managed descent where it hits an altitude constraint and there are mountains under me.
 

A300Capt

Well-Known Member
I don't like the HSI being on the ND, and the reason I say it doesn't count, is because it's a primary navigation instrument. The HSI is below the AI on every single airplane made since about the 1940's, but NOOOOOO, not on the Airbus. The thing belongs on the PFD, like every other airplane in the world. Do you know how ubiquitous this placement is? The Space Shuttle had an HSI below the attitude indicator. If it's good enough for America's Space Eagle, it's good enough for me.
The HSI on MD11 is located on the ND and it is side-by-side with the PFD. Never really cared for this type of setup (but I've become use to it) as I was used to having the PFD centered and directly in front of me and not offset. And, the biggest issue I have with this side by side setup is everytime the control wheel is deflected to the right, the control wheel blocks my view of the PFD unless I lean right and crane my neck forward to look around it. That's one advantage the newer generation Airbus's..er, Airbuses...Airbusi (whatever:ooh:) sidestick has over the traditional yoke.

Anyway....I have to say your posts on here are cracking me up. Especially the one about being "ugly wrong..." Damn near choked on my coffee!:biggrin:

 
Last edited:

Nick

Well-Known Member
I don't like the HSI being on the ND, and the reason I say it doesn't count, is because it's a primary navigation instrument. The HSI is below the AI on every single airplane made since about the 1940's, but NOOOOOO, not on the Airbus. The thing belongs on the PFD, like every other airplane in the world. Do you know how ubiquitous this placement is? The Space Shuttle had an HSI below the attitude indicator. If it's good enough for America's Space Eagle, it's good enough for me.
I have to question this one point.

Here is an assortment of airplanes with their PFDs and no HSI whatsoever, some in the same formation as the Airbus:

717

717.png


737 classic

737-3.png


737NG, which doesn't have an HSI but the HUD does feature one

737ng.png


747-400

747.png


757/767

757.png


Looks like Boeing brought the HSI back with the 787:

787.png


MD-11

md-11.png
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
I have to question this one point.

Here is an assortment of airplanes with their PFDs and no HSI whatsoever, some in the same formation as the Airbus:

717

View attachment 41972

737 classic

View attachment 41973

737NG, which doesn't have an HSI but the HUD does feature one

View attachment 41974

747-400

View attachment 41975

757/767

View attachment 41976

Looks like Boeing brought the HSI back with the 787:

View attachment 41977

MD-11

View attachment 41978
Space. Shuttle.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
I found this funny too. Most just let it fly in the bracket and if it’s fast or slow oh well. Kinda like ALTCRZ, I just accept it as a soft mode to allow a smoother operation in that mode.
I don't have much experience in the bus yet... Is there a way to enable/disable the soft altitude? I spend pretty much the whole way out to ETP trying to find something about it in the fcom.
 

milleR

Well-Known Member
Do you know why Airbus pilots get stuffed in lockers in middle school? This is why Airbus pilots get stuffed in lockers in middle school.

I know how this stuff works, I just think it's weird. And honestly, I find it funny that we can, on this forum, go from endorsing Freedom Fries, and then a few years later say, "But wait, the French did this other really weird thing...AND IT'S TOTALLY AWESOME!"

So allow me to respond to a few things as the Resident Airbus Hater.

I don't like the HSI being on the ND, and the reason I say it doesn't count, is because it's a primary navigation instrument. The HSI is below the AI on every single airplane made since about the 1940's, but NOOOOOO, not on the Airbus. The thing belongs on the PFD, like every other airplane in the world. Do you know how ubiquitous this placement is? The Space Shuttle had an HSI below the attitude indicator. If it's good enough for America's Space Eagle, it's good enough for me.

Also, I love the argument that since FBW exists, trim doesn't need to. It is not REQUIRED to exist, but there are plenty of FBW planes out there with elevator and aileron trim, specifically Boeing, EMB and Bombardier. Airbus is, without question, the outlier here. And it's not because you CAN'T do it the way Airbus has the aircraft setup, because clearly you can. It's that it's WEIRD. Not unflyable, just weird. You know what's weird about it? Airbus decided that since The United States of Freedom created manned, fixed wing flight, and then perfected how to make the flight controls work, that Airbus couldn't POSSIBLY follow in the footsteps of those simpleton Americans. No, instead of the stick commanding flight control deflection, the stick would control RATE! Because nous sommes les français!!!

But in the end, the boss tells me to fly the Airbus, so I figure out how to curse in French and learn to accept that the Cult Of Airbus will become mortally insulted if anyone ever says, "Yeah, I get how it works, but that's really strange," or said in French, "Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de conard d'encule de ta mere."

EDIT: Also, regarding the thing reverting from DES to VS without being commanded to do so, I couldn't tell you why it does it, but it does. Could be a software thing with the planes we have, but it only seems to do it when in a managed descent where it hits an altitude constraint and there are mountains under me.
This feels appropriate:

 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
I don't have much experience in the bus yet... Is there a way to enable/disable the soft altitude? I spend pretty much the whole way out to ETP trying to find something about it in the fcom.
Sure, put in a cruise altitude above what your actual cruise altitude will be.

But my guess is that bad things would happen if you did that.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
Sure, put in a cruise altitude above what your actual cruise altitude will be.

But my guess is that bad things would happen if you did that.
I was actually trying to figure out how to enable it. There is no default "soft" altitude hold in the NEO. At least the version we have. It holds the ALTCRZ and then runs the engines up and down to hold airspeed.
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
I was actually trying to figure out how to enable it. There is no default "soft" altitude hold in the NEO. At least the version we have. It holds the ALTCRZ and then runs the engines up and down to hold airspeed.
As in enable it at an intermediate altitude? Like say you're going to cruise at FL300 initially but have a step later?
 
On a descend via STAR, with speed restrictions, it won't hit the speed always as it has the bracketed speed region. It seems silly that you have to select a speed instead of letting managed just do its thing, especially when there are a bunch of speed changes on the arrival.
Be careful about selecting the speed if you're fast! It'll blow off the path to grab the selected speed, potentially causing you to miss the crossing.

That being said, once you're inside the Deccel point (circle D), you HAVE to go selected speed if there are constraints, since in the approach phase it considers the programmed speed a maximum instead of a target. (the programming thinks you should be slowing for the approach).
 
Do you know why Airbus pilots get stuffed in lockers in middle school? This is why Airbus pilots get stuffed in lockers in middle school.

I know how this stuff works, I just think it's weird. And honestly, I find it funny that we can, on this forum, go from endorsing Freedom Fries, and then a few years later say, "But wait, the French did this other really weird thing...AND IT'S TOTALLY AWESOME!"

So allow me to respond to a few things as the Resident Airbus Hater.

I don't like the HSI being on the ND, and the reason I say it doesn't count, is because it's a primary navigation instrument. The HSI is below the AI on every single airplane made since about the 1940's, but NOOOOOO, not on the Airbus. The thing belongs on the PFD, like every other airplane in the world. Do you know how ubiquitous this placement is? The Space Shuttle had an HSI below the attitude indicator. If it's good enough for America's Space Eagle, it's good enough for me.

Also, I love the argument that since FBW exists, trim doesn't need to. It is not REQUIRED to exist, but there are plenty of FBW planes out there with elevator and aileron trim, specifically Boeing, EMB and Bombardier. Airbus is, without question, the outlier here. And it's not because you CAN'T do it the way Airbus has the aircraft setup, because clearly you can. It's that it's WEIRD. Not unflyable, just weird. You know what's weird about it? Airbus decided that since The United States of Freedom created manned, fixed wing flight, and then perfected how to make the flight controls work, that Airbus couldn't POSSIBLY follow in the footsteps of those simpleton Americans. No, instead of the stick commanding flight control deflection, the stick would control RATE! Because nous sommes les français!!!

But in the end, the boss tells me to fly the Airbus, so I figure out how to curse in French and learn to accept that the Cult Of Airbus will become mortally insulted if anyone ever says, "Yeah, I get how it works, but that's really strange," or said in French, "Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de conard d'encule de ta mere."

EDIT: Also, regarding the thing reverting from DES to VS without being commanded to do so, I couldn't tell you why it does it, but it does. Could be a software thing with the planes we have, but it only seems to do it when in a managed descent where it hits an altitude constraint and there are mountains under me.

That's why I played football and lifted. I may have been (still am) a nerd, but go ahead, try to stuff me in a locker. :D

I won't bother with the HSI and ND thing, since the format that airbus uses is prevalent throughout the industry in glass cockpits.

There's never been a case I've wanted aileron trim in fifi, so I guess that's why I was like "eh, who cares?" Your rant about flight controls is ironic at best, since the FBW logic is based on what was on the Murica' made F-16. Roll rates and load factors... just much higher!

As far as going from DES to V/S, the main reversion for that is selecting a heading. You'll get that 100% of the time with the triple click.

Bring on the haterade, I'll bring the deets. :D

 
Last edited:

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
That's why I played football and lifted. I may have been (still am) a nerd, but go ahead, try to stuff me in a locker. :D

I won't bother with the HSI and ND thing, since the format that airbus uses is prevalent throughout the industry in glass cockpits.

There's never been a case I've wanted aileron trim in fifi, so I guess that's why I was like "eh, who cares?" Your rant about flight controls is ironic at best, since the FBW logic is based on what was on the Murica' made F-16. Roll rates and load factors... just much higher!

As far as going from DES to V/S, the main reversion for that is selecting a heading. You'll get that 100% of the time with the triple click.

Bring on the haterade, I'll bring the deets. :D

I was in the marching band. I got stuffed in lockers.

It reverts while in nav when it does this. As in we are in nav, don't touch anything, and the plane changes itself from DES to V/S on it's own. In fact the last time it did it to me was on an arc into STI, time before that was going into SJC on the RNAV arrival from the south.

It's common enough on the fleet for most guys to say, "well, it did it again." I've seen it twice in 6 months, though I may have bad luck. Both times I didn't touch the FMC, or whatever the hell Airbus calls it.
 
I was in the marching band. I got stuffed in lockers.

It reverts while in nav when it does this. As in we are in nav, don't touch anything, and the plane changes itself from DES to V/S on it's own. In fact the last time it did it to me was on an arc into STI, time before that was going into SJC on the RNAV arrival from the south.

It's common enough on the fleet for most guys to say, "well, it did it again." I've seen it twice in 6 months, though I may have bad luck. Both times I didn't touch the FMC, or whatever the hell Airbus calls it.
That's strange... I've been French since 2011 and have never seen it do that, which doesn't exclude what y'all fly from doing it. Each airline can purchase different software options... sounds like what y'all bought has a bug that needs to be worked out. We just got through upgrading all of ours to new DMCs and FWCs.
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
That's strange... I've been French since 2011 and have never seen it do that, which doesn't exclude what y'all fly from doing it. Each airline can purchase different software options... sounds like what y'all bought has a bug that needs to be worked out. We just got through upgrading all of ours to new DMCs and FWCs.
The truth is if you're monitoring the aircraft, and I sure as hell hope you are on arrival and approach, you should see the FMA change. If you don't, you'll hear the thing beep at you.

But I agree, I think it's a software difference. I'll be down in recurrent in a few weeks and ask to see if the brain trust knows of a cause of if there's a solution.