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121 crosswind landing technique

Beefy McGee

Well-Known Member
#1
Just got out of a sim training event. We were discussing hard landings and such, which brought up the crosswind landing subject.

Prior to today, any time I heard crosswind landings discussed, putting the upwind main down first was acceptable if it was a strong enough crosswind. No side load, rolling straight down the runway.

Instructor was of the opinion that in the 121 world, you should "be good enough" that you never make a landing on only one main gear at any time. Both mains should touch at the same time, every time. But to me that might mean a crabbed touchdown on the centerline or a straight touchdown but with sideways drift.

Thoughts?
 

denverpilot

Well-Known Member
#4
I dragged an engine in the 747-400 sim once. Heh.

I’m not a 121 pilot, just for clarity.

Friend who was giving us the “tour” said he’d set me up for a big ol’ crosswind and then thought it was funny when I dragged Number 1 on the ground.

I made the other landings okay, though. :) Survivable anyway.

Also got to see how a pre-V1 loss of one of the outboards created a crap-ton of yaw, and you couldn’t really control it... shut it down and stand on the brakes.

Was a fun afternoon. Sim wasn’t in use, and we didn’t break it, and they were a lot less paranoid about letting people into sims that weren’t working for the airlines back then... still had to give an SSN and have a background check done, because, you know... “terrorism” and all...
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
#5
In some severe-swept wing aircraft, you try any kind of wing low, you'll induce a huge descent rate or else possibly interrupt the clean airflow to the crab-direction wing via the fuselage

For both the ole 117 (severe sweep) and the T-38 (which had little wing area), our crosswind landings had to be done with a crab all the way to touchdown. There was no such thing as the wing-low method, lest you want to stall the jet being cross controlled. Just as for the F-117, there was no such thing as aerodynamic braking on rollout.....very strictly prohibited, unlike other tactical jets.
 
#6
Just got out of a sim training event. We were discussing hard landings and such, which brought up the crosswind landing subject.

Prior to today, any time I heard crosswind landings discussed, putting the upwind main down first was acceptable if it was a strong enough crosswind. No side load, rolling straight down the runway.

Instructor was of the opinion that in the 121 world, you should "be good enough" that you never make a landing on only one main gear at any time. Both mains should touch at the same time, every time. But to me that might mean a crabbed touchdown on the centerline or a straight touchdown but with sideways drift.

Thoughts?
It is entirely aircraft dependent. Has nothing to do with 121.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
#7
In most more complex aircraft, the spoilers assist the ailerons with roll, so dropping a wing could create a lot of drag as well, that can have unintended consequences in a flare. Generally, like @Cptnchia said, crab until the very end, and then kick it out in the flare, keeping the wings level, mostly works. Depending on the plane you get a few degrees of bank to play with before you smack an engine pod or a wingtip.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
#8
In most more complex aircraft, the spoilers assist the ailerons with roll, so dropping a wing could create a lot of drag as well, that can have unintended consequences in a flare. Generally, like @Cptnchia said, crab until the very end, and then kick it out in the flare, keeping the wings level, mostly works. Depending on the plane you get a few degrees of bank to play with before you smack an engine pod or a wingtip.
The KC-135As and Es had something like a max 7 or 8 degrees roll limit on landing touchdown. But when the KC-135Rs came out, with the CFM-56s replacing the J57s/TF33s, that reduced to something like 3 or 4 degrees on touchdown, else you drag an inboard nacelle on the runway.
 

Derg

Naval Intelligence, MCRN
Staff member
#9
Dependent on the aircraft and your technique.

76, you'd do the rudder to straighten the nose out, aileron to stop the roll. Airbus (330) is press the rudder to straighten it out the last 100-ish feet and the inertia would take care of the rest. The 320 is rudder to straighten and tap the stick the opposite direction…. well, kinda.
 

CFI A&P

Well-Known Member
#16
The technique varies with type due to design considerations as Mike pointed out. For example, dragging a nacelle on my airplane would be really impressive since they are up on the tail, but you can drag a flap track cover (canoe). Those have been removed before by snow piles when taxing. Then you have the B-52, C195, ErCoupe with their own way.

Trailing link gear: land it how ever you’d like without scratching anything.

(Not a 121 pilot).


Sent from my Startac using Tapatalk.
 
#17
737 depends on which model you're talking about.

700: Do whatever you want. Pull the power off, flare it like you'll never strike the tail, kick it straight at the end.

900: For the love of God don't pull the power back until you've stopped the sink rate. Also don't use flaps 40, they'll turn your flare into a pitch change with no associated slowing of descent rate. Whatever cross wind technique you want is fine, but you'll have to be quick because you're going fast enough to pass heavies that are for the parallel.
 

ClarkGriswold

Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
#19
737 depends on which model you're talking about.

700: Do whatever you want. Pull the power off, flare it like you'll never strike the tail, kick it straight at the end.

900: For the love of God don't pull the power back until you've stopped the sink rate. Also don't use flaps 40, they'll turn your flare into a pitch change with no associated slowing of descent rate. Whatever cross wind technique you want is fine, but you'll have to be quick because you're going fast enough to pass heavies that are for the parallel.
I used 40 quite a few times in the 900. It's not that bad...
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
#20
Well, I’ve never flown a jeeeeet but I figure “close my eyes, haul back on the yoke, and scream like a little girl” has worked for me so far, so it oughtta work for you.