10 Reasons not to ATTEND Panam Academy

**DONOTDELETE**

New Member
10 reasons not attend Panam International Flight Academy....(1= being the worst reason)

10. i was there for 6 months (im living proof of why you shouldn't go)
9. "Ace Program"...what Ace Program??? oh yah with um Airnet??? yah seems to me that in the 6 months I was there..ummm no-one got hired on by any of there Ace partners minus "AIRNET"...faster farther and what again???
8. to much money to be bullshi**ed around!!!i was!faster, farther, oh yah and for sure!!! thats it
7. hmmmm if you want to be guaranteed a CFI position there later ummm you have to finish the "ACE PROGRAM" 1st then maybe you can teach,,,yah..ummmm considering they hired probably 3/4 or 75% of the instructors from outside of the school.
6. ummm how about the 1,2,3:00am simulator lessons w/ your instructor those were great...but hey Panams gotta pay the facility and aircraft bill
....right. oh yah how about not being booked an airplane regulary because of the over frieking population there....hmmmmm
5. at least if your gonna waste all your money @ Panam do it in Florida its closer to the beach and ummm i am really not to fond of the staff in Phoenix.
4. oh yah did i mention that there time-frame for each rating is way over the original..ummm yah.... private certificate = 7-8 weeks right? hahaha yah whatever maybe your 1st dual x-country...try 4-5 months. thats sound about right now.if your lucky that is.
3. what does panam desparately need in 4 words =.....new....chief...flight...intructors
2. oh yah i heard they're thinking about changing the Panam motto from "We train you faster, farther, for sure"......to..........."we train terrorists faster, farther, and for sure"...cause what the hay its all money in the piggy bank yo!
1. if you made it through this far......you shouldn't have because hopefully you were already turned-off about ever thinking about investing training @ Panam for...sure. please listen to me i care about the sanity of others to much to let anyone go through what i did @ panam flight academy in arizona...$14,000.00 later....and learn that someone did what i had to do and leave the program into nothing...not knowing if they would ever be able to further/finish there training somewhere else...due to well..if you gotta family..you know what i mean......if you absolutely need to go there well...don't, walk another block or so west and join Westwind Academy instead. -TAILWINDS-
 

Tired

New Member
First off, I am amazed that someone that has nothing to do with the school goes back over two years to bump threads. Moreover, the fact that he had to go back over two years to find these threads speaks for itself. Add to that the fact that the thread he picks out here, even if the points are valid, is still of a bunch of poorly written crap. So anyways here's the deal.

Items 10, 8, 2, and 1 I don't even really understand the point. Perhaps if the original poster could rephrase them so they make sense I could give my side.

Item 9 -- sure after 9/11 hiring wasn't so great, and the handful of ACE grads were lucky to get with Airnet. However, these days grads are going to a bunch of places like Eagle, Mesaba, TSA...etc.

Item 7 -- three years ago they did have to hire from the outside. Now they only have to hire from the outside for two-year CFIs, which is good thing for grads. The wait to instruct was zero when the original post was writtten. Since that time there was a period where grads had to wait awhile, however, the wait at Pan Am was NEVER as bad as it got as FSI.

Item 6 -- no more night IR training, for almost a year now I believe.

Item 5 -- sorry, the Phoenix location will never be as near the beach as the Florida location. Please check a map before enrolling next time.

Item 4 -- not so familar with this issue anymore, but I know that things have improved in this department.

Item 3 -- like most schools, in two years the staff has almost completely changed.

Are we ever going to hear any new complaints? Or do we still have to rehash from two years ago? Look at the people that whine the most about Pan Am, they attended the school over two years ago. You'd think if the school was so bad there would be a steady stream of whiners, instead of the two or three that have been at it for years.
 

project7

New Member
The way it has been explained to me by instructors and students during my visits to pan am DVT is that the school has made some major changes (especially in the staff area) over the last year or two. Even the counselors will admit that there were a few bad eggs disturbing the system.

All flight training programs (academies, FBOs, Universities, whatever) are subject to problems because they are run by people. People, no matter how highly trained or experienced, can be jerks. If you look through old threads, every flight school has had bad times. This happens to any business. Even your beloved FSI is heading towards an inevitable conflict as a result of its PFT programs.

If your knowledge of a school is based entirely on posts you have read on jetcareers, you might want to question whether or not you can really make a valid point.
 

Lima_Charlie

New Member
More people that have no idea what they are talking about!!

Must be something w/ the heat that is making all the wacko's come out...

10. Are you kidding?? You must have really been struggling for a #10 if that is the best you could come up with. Just because you couldn't hack it, then no one can?? Please!!!

9. The ACE program... An amazing investment. Unless you have gone through it, you really shouldn't comment. Not only was it fun, but it was an amazing learning experience!!! It says alot when an airline will lower their hiring minimums for those that have graduated from ACE. So far, Skyway, American Eagle, and of course Airnet, all have lowered minimums. (Those are just the ones that came to campus last week to give us a presentation on their airline.) I am confident that the experience will be well worth the $$$ come interview/ground school time.

8. Not much content to refute, so on to the next one..

7. Getting hired as an instructor... I can only think of a few 2 year CFI's that had to be hired from the outside. We needed the 2 year CFI's because all of our other 2 year CFI's were HIRED BY THE AIRLINES!!!!!

6. Late night sim sessions? None existent. Nuf said! I take that back... Are you telling me that you are upset because the school had so many students that the sims had to run 24/7??? I guess they should have asked you how long you wanted to stretch out your instrument training so that your night life wasn't inconvenienced!! You would probably be the first person in line bitching that your instrument training was taking forever because the sims had a limited schedule!!! Unbelievable!!!!

5. Florida... Yeah, that's it. Make a HUGE decision on how close the beach is! If that is what you are looking for, then by all means, go find a beach. If you are more interested in the scenery than in your flight training, then maybe you should reevalute your decision to attend an academy. I would be willing to bet hard money that the successful students at PA could careless what the scenery looked like, they are here to get their career started, not their tan!

4. 4-5 months to get to your first dual XC, eh? (Sarcasm on) Yeah, I am sure that is the schools fault!! I am sure you take no responsibility for you progress.I am sure it is 100% the schools fault. Maybe I am just and exceptional pilot, or MAYBE I JUST WORKED AND STUDIED VERY HARD, but in that 5 month period, I was just finishing up w/ my Private Multi. (Funny, now that I think about, most of my class was at just about the same point. But, I am sure you must have had some challenging circumstances (the school) that kept you from making ANY progress.) That means I had my Private, Instrument and most of my Multi done! COME ON!! MAN UP AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS!!!

3. We need a new Chief, eh? So can you back that up w/ some reasons why?? Or were you just struggling to find more stuff to whine about?

2. Terrorists, eh? Yeah, I just lost any thread of respect that I might have had for your opinion. No basis, No fact... If you are going to make statements like that, you had better be prepared to back them up!!

1. Yup, still reading, as I haven't read a single accurate statement. I have done ALOT of shoveling, but have yet to find anything of content... Hmmm

As I have said MANY times... If you are not willing to work your A#$ off, then you don't belong at a school like Pan Am, FSI, or any other academy. If you are the type of person that has to blame others for your failure, then you don't belong at Pan Am, FSI, or any other academy. If you are the type of person that takes responsiblity for your actions, and believes that your success or failure is entire in your hands, then you just might be able to hack it at an academy like FSI, or Pan Am!!!
 

montanapilot

Well-Known Member
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when did you go to pan am montanapilot?

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havent, FBO trained and proud to be.

since when does going to pan am suddenly become the prerequisite to being able to discuss its shortcomings?
 

Lima_Charlie

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
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when did you go to pan am montanapilot?

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havent, FBO trained and proud to be.

since when does going to pan am suddenly become the prerequisite to being able to discuss its shortcomings?

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Well, it does help to have some DIRECT experience w/ the subject you are discussing, don't you think??

That would kind of be like my trying to discuss your FBO, w/out ever stepping foot inside! Right??
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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when did you go to pan am montanapilot?

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havent, FBO trained and proud to be.

since when does going to pan am suddenly become the prerequisite to being able to discuss its shortcomings?

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Well, it does help to have some DIRECT experience w/ the subject you are discussing, don't you think??

That would kind of be like my trying to discuss your FBO, w/out ever stepping foot inside! Right??

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If that were the case, none of us should discuss politics!!
 

Snow

'Not a new member'
Did you mention 95% of the aircraft air conditioning systems don't work, despite being a major selling point. Hum...
 

Lima_Charlie

New Member
95% is a little excessive... Unfortunately, the AC seems break rather frequently. I would say maybe 1/4 of the aircraft have broken AC at any given time. (We have about 20 Archers, and 5 Arrows that have AC.) But that is a completely uninformed estimate. Maintenance tries to get them fixed as soon as possible, but I think they look at as a luxury, so it is not as high on the "to be fixed" list as the students might like. That and since there are so many flight hours happening each day, it is hard for them to take one off line, just so the AC can get fixed. I look at it as a special treat if we get one that is pumping nice cold air. Otherwise, we just go do our manuevers a few thousand feet higher, and sweat profusely whilst taxing.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Lima Charlie,
How many ratings have you recieved at Pan Am since you started? How long did it take? are you average? Is their timeline accurate?

Do you go to phoenix or florida?

Sorry about all the questions.
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
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Maintenance tries to get them fixed as soon as possible, but I think they look at as a luxury, so it is not as high on the "to be fixed" list as the students might like. That and since there are so many flight hours happening each day, it is hard for them to take one off line, just so the AC can get fixed. I look at it as a special treat if we get one that is pumping nice cold air.

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As an outsider looking in, I try to just observe and learn as much as I can from both sides of the argument. This issue, however, strikes me as being pretty big on the list, and obviously misleading.

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PAIFA utilizes a fleet of all New Piper Aircraft - the newest and most reliable fleet of training aircraft available anywhere. Our New Piper fleet includes the Archer III, the Arrow and the twin-engine Seminole. With an all new fleet, nearly every flight is dispatched on time, every time. Students will not experience the training delays normally associated with maintaining a fleet of older aircraft. Our aircraft feature advanced Garmin GNS430 GPS navigation/communication systems, and the single engine aircraft feature air-conditioning for pilot comfort.


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That's right off of the website. If i'm planning on doing flight training in Phoenix and this is one of the perks that the school offered, I'd be pretty pissed....
 

Lima_Charlie

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Lima Charlie,
How many ratings have you recieved at Pan Am since you started? How long did it take? are you average? Is their timeline accurate?

Do you go to phoenix or florida?

Sorry about all the questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I started at the Phoenix campus back in September of '03 w/ zero time. I am currently working on my CFI rating. So if my math is correct, I am just about 10 months into it. Of the 19 people that I started w/ back in September, 3 of us on working on our CFI. I would say that there are about 4-5 from that same group that will start their CFI groundschool on Monday, the 21st. I would say that it is going to take me a little longer than the advertised timeline. That is my fault though. (I had a hard time learning to land correctly.) I think 11 months is very doable, but it takes and extremely focused individual to make that happen. IMHO, for a guy that had never flown before last September, I am quite pleased w/ my progress.

Oh, and I am at the Phoenix campus...

Any more ???'s...??
 

Lima_Charlie

New Member
[ QUOTE ]

PAIFA utilizes a fleet of all New Piper Aircraft - the newest and most reliable fleet of training aircraft available anywhere. Our New Piper fleet includes the Archer III, the Arrow and the twin-engine Seminole. With an all new fleet, nearly every flight is dispatched on time, every time. Students will not experience the training delays normally associated with maintaining a fleet of older aircraft. Our aircraft feature advanced Garmin GNS430 GPS navigation/communication systems, and the single engine aircraft feature air-conditioning for pilot comfort.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's right off of the website. If i'm planning on doing flight training in Phoenix and this is one of the perks that the school offered, I'd be pretty pissed....

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It not as though the management goes out and clips the wires so the AC doesn't work. Mechanical parts break. Maintenance does the best they can to keep them working. I would bet that if you ran your car's AC for a solid 18hrs a day, that it would eventually break. And you would then procede to get it fixed at your earliest convenience, right?? Would your not go to work until your AC got fixed? No, you would still go to work, and deal w/ the broken part as soon as you could.

So if you had to fly an airplane that had a broken AC once out of every 4-5 flights, that would truly upset you?? I could understand if NONE of AC's worked and the school was advertising otherwise, but it isn't really the case. It certainly wouldn't push me over into the "disgruntled Pan Am'er" category.
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
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I would bet that if you ran your car's AC for a solid 18hrs a day, that it would eventually break. And you would then procede to get it fixed at your earliest convenience, right?? Would your not go to work until your AC got fixed? No, you would still go to work, and deal w/ the broken part as soon as you could.


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Well, if it's my personal car and I'm the only one that has to use it, then you're absolutely right - I'd go without AC. Actually, my AC has been broken for about 9 months now...miserable, I tell you!!!


However, if I were looking for a rental car in Phoenix, and one place says "Come Use our Cars - They Have Air Conditioning!!!!!", I would expect Air Conditioning. If it only worked for 4 of the 5 days I was renting it, I want some money back. How do they know that air conditioning wasn't important to me?

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It certainly wouldn't push me over into the "disgruntled Pan Am'er" category.


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And therein lies an excellent point! Different people have different reasons to be disgruntled! Me? I'd be pissed about the AC. Some people might be pissed about the wait to get students.
 

montanapilot

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
How many ratings have you recieved at Pan Am since you started? How long did it take? are you average? Is their timeline accurate?

Do you go to phoenix or florida?

Sorry about all the questions.


[/ QUOTE ]

If your gonna drop that kinda money training (which isnt really necessary) you should go to FSI.
 

montanapilot

Well-Known Member
Lima Charlie, why do you fight tooth and nail to defend this place?

The AC deal is pretty deceitful in my opinion
 

gomntwins

Well-Known Member
I'm going to do what not a lot of people have done on here... talk about both the perks and negatives of Pan Am. It seems like people are either of the opinion that there is nothing good about Pan Am... or that Pan Am is perfect. In my opinion, neither is correct... Pan Am has both positives and negatives... as does damn near every other thing in the world.

By the way, I am a former PanAm student (DVT). It was recommended to me that I leave after I struggled with the commercial rating, and I did so... because PanAm was not for me.

Positives:
1) The instructors there are very nice/intelligent/hardworking. This goes for both the ground and flight instructors. Honestly, the ground instructors that I had were some of the best instructors I've ever had! They not only knew what they were talking about, but they presented the material in a way where I personally retained a lot. As for the flight instructors, I always had a flight instructor that seemed competent (there are a few negatives with the flight instructors also-- but I'll leave that for a minute)
2) Maintenance seemed to be top rate! There were a few occasions where my flights were canceled because of broken aircraft... but that happens everywhere. These are training aircraft that get the snot kicked out of them... and do so on a daily basis... so things do break. Usually they had a different aircraft for me... but if not, it got canceled. You're going to have a hard time finding a place that ALWAYS has an aircraft for you to fly... so I don't fault PanAm. When things were fixed... they were fixed correctly... and I always felt safe getting into a PanAm airplane.
3) Location... not really a PanAm thing... but Arizona is a good place to train. Good weather, etc. Perks to PanAm for picking this location
4) A lot of students were very happy with PanAm. More power to them. It wasn't for me... but you can't overlook a product where a lot of people, as can be seen on the posts here, are perfectly happy.
5) If you struggle with self motivation... this place is perfect for you. You don't need to worry about scheduling yourself-- they do it all for you. All you do is show up when you're scheduled... can't get any easier than that. I could see this benefitting individuals who are straight out of high school... and are planning on waiting for college until after their ratings. College teaches you how to motivate yourself-- and take everything upon yourself (going to class, registering, working out your own schedule, etc.)... and a lot of people straight out of high school don't have that experience/knowledge yet.

Negatives:
1) Back to the instructors. As I mentioned, I struggled with my commercial rating. I struggled with Lazy 8's. A lot. PanAm did everything they could for me.. they sent me up with a bunch of different instructors, but to no avail. The problem was... all the instructors had been taught the same... so it never got through to me. What I needed was someone with a totally different approach to this maneuver to reach me.... Pan Am couldn't do that. I ended up leaving PanAm, going to an FBO, and flying Lazy 8's for an hour and getting them down. This is after I'd put 20 hours into lazy 8's at PanAm. Was I happy... sure. Was I out some cash... definitely.
2) The airconditioning. Mentioned above.
3) The admissions person I had out and out lied to me about PanAm. I heard that individual was let go of after I got there... but I came to PanAm and found out that a lot of what this individual told me were lies. A bad egg... I guess. Still, there wasn't a whole lot of excuse. I should mention, I heard a lot of others complaining about this same experience. It shouldn't be a problem anymore... but it left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
4) I got a lot of flack for my previous training (I came in with my private/instrument). People complaining about how poor it was... and how I made a huge mistake for not just going to PanAm for my private/instrument. This is a personal pet peeve... but I can't stand it when people knock others training. No one knows the perfect way.. if they did... we wouldn't be having this debate.
5) If you're a very independent person, it's hard to go this approach. Personally, I found that me dealing with FBO's, where I had a lot of say in my training, was better for me. A lot of people are probably thinking... flying is not individualistic... and I really need to start dealing with being told what to do by potential airlines. I'll agree to a point... but not fully. If I'm getting paid to do something... you're damn right I'll do it like they want, and will put up with it. But, paying somebody to tell me what to do and when to do it... that's not for me. I can take it upon myself to schedule lessons with my flight instructor... and schedule my own time when I want at an FBO. I'm the customer! Remember, this is initial training... you're learning how to fly an airplane... do it with the method that makes you the happiest. Don't put yourself in a training environment that makes you disgruntled week number 2.
6) I was actually told, after I struggled with my commercial that I should maybe look at finding a different career. What a horrible thing to do. I down on myself for a day...then I thought about how PanAm wasn't for me, picked up my pride and went elsewhere... and now I'm happy again.
7) Don't expect to be doing a lot of 'fun' flights. Every flight I realize is fun in its own way... but don't expect to be tooling around looking at scenery for a few mintues-- expect all flights to be right down to business.

Some of the negatives can arguably be put in the positive column... that's for you to figure out. Bottom line, I want everybody to make it. If you're happy at PanAm, wonderful! Personally, it wasn't for me.
 
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