App says GS out, appears to be working... - Page 2

calcapt · February 5th, 2010, 23:56

I have seen very believable GS indications with the GS out of service. I remember years ago missing the OTS GS on the ATIS and found myself struggling to figure out why the approach didn't look or feel right. I finally figured out the problem but there was 5 to 10 seconds of major confusion - which is 10 seconds too many.

If ATIS or App Control reports "GS Out" then consider it out - period.

MikeD · February 6th, 2010, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400A

. Blindly following a descent rate towards the ground in the hopes of breaking out is a sure way to become "one with the earth".

.

Thats exactly how we had to get underneath the solid WX in Afghan, in order to drop into valley's at night when we were needed. Best know where you are, and whats underneath/ahead/to the immediate sides of you. Sporty indeed.....pucker factor increases as altitude decreases.

TXaviator · February 6th, 2010, 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400A

Purely from a "I just fracked myself into a corner" POV. I would go with the VFR GPS and try to circle. Blindly following a descent rate towards the ground in the hopes of breaking out is a sure way to become "one with the earth".

In the land of reality you never blast off IFR without the appropriate approach plates and you never blast off needing an alternate that doesn't have the required WX so you can get in.

well the problem was that my friend only discovered his GS in the a/c was inop after takeoff and then he was relying on it to fly the approaches that were anticipated in preflight planning, and at that point it was already flown into a corner...

my friend thought he had plenty of plates to get himself where he needed to be....

note: this is also a statement of my friends' general displeasure at the scarcity of finding charts and plates at airports nowdays....

Goldmember · February 6th, 2010, 14:10

What, like you are going to discover instruments are broken only on the ground? And you took only approaches using a single instrument that if it failed, you are toast? Since charts are scarce, probably a good idea to print out more than just the ILS at your destination and Alternate. From the sounds of it, you didn't take an enroute chart? Because who knows, engine problems, unforecast storms/icing. What are you going to do if you have to shoot an approach at an airport that you DIDN'T plan on using? Fact is, this is the age of the internet, charts are not scarce, sportys.com for the sets. I'm not getting down on you, its just preflight planning in IFR is a lot more in depth and serious than a lot of people think.

minitour · February 7th, 2010, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldmember

What are you going to do if you have to shoot an approach at an airport that you DIDN'T plan on using?

Say "Hey approach, looks like we can't find the chart for that one. Can you read it to us, please?" and then fly the approach as read.

Crisis resolved.

-mini

jtrain609 · February 7th, 2010, 14:55

Use the VFR GPS as DME.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm always ready to shoot a GPS approach with a hand held if things get bad enough. If my options are "fly until you run out of gas, and hope you find a field" and "shoot a GPS approach with an unapproved GPS that is very likely just as accurate as the one in the panel," then I'm taking my chances with the GPS.

MikeD · February 7th, 2010, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Use the VFR GPS as DME.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm always ready to shoot a GPS approach with a hand held if things get bad enough. If my options are "fly until you run out of gas, and hope you find a field" and "shoot a GPS approach with an unapproved GPS that is very likely just as accurate as the one in the panel," then I'm taking my chances with the GPS.

Oh you criminal...........

jtrain609 · February 7th, 2010, 15:55

I'm an internet bully because I suck at flying! It's the only way I have to vent!

scooter2525 · February 12th, 2010, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Chances are, if you've got to use non-alphabetic characters to prove a point, it's probably in violation of our profanity rules.

I'll be a gambling man...

shot? stat? spot. certainly spot.

I don't give a spot about notams.

scooter2525 · February 12th, 2010, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by minitour

"Hey approach, looks like we can't find the chart for that one. Can you read it to us, please?"

-mini

There is an app for that. I downloaded it on my mac.

///AMG · February 14th, 2010, 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeD

Thats exactly how we had to get underneath the solid WX in Afghan, in order to drop into valley's at night when we were needed. Best know where you are, and whats underneath/ahead/to the immediate sides of you. Sporty indeed.....pucker factor increases as altitude decreases.

No self-contained fancy radar approach for you then? Most of our Hornet IP's have stories about letting themselves down into various overseas fields using AESA love

MikeD · February 14th, 2010, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///AMG

No self-contained fancy radar approach for you then? Most of our Hornet IP's have stories about letting themselves down into various overseas fields using AESA love

Strictly old school here, my friend. Works the first time, everytime. Unless I screw it up.

February 5th, 2010, 23:56	#26
calcapt Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Posts: 1,436	Re: App says GS out, appears to be working... I have seen very believable GS indications with the GS out of service. I remember years ago missing the OTS GS on the ATIS and found myself struggling to figure out why the approach didn't look or feel right. I finally figured out the problem but there was 5 to 10 seconds of major confusion - which is 10 seconds too many. If ATIS or App Control reports "GS Out" then consider it out - period.

February 6th, 2010, 14:10	#29
Goldmember Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Louisville, KY. Posts: 288	Re: App says GS out, appears to be working... What, like you are going to discover instruments are broken only on the ground? And you took only approaches using a single instrument that if it failed, you are toast? Since charts are scarce, probably a good idea to print out more than just the ILS at your destination and Alternate. From the sounds of it, you didn't take an enroute chart? Because who knows, engine problems, unforecast storms/icing. What are you going to do if you have to shoot an approach at an airport that you DIDN'T plan on using? Fact is, this is the age of the internet, charts are not scarce, sportys.com for the sets. I'm not getting down on you, its just preflight planning in IFR is a lot more in depth and serious than a lot of people think. __________________ What are we going to do tonight brain? --Same thing we do every night Pinky, try and take over the world.

February 7th, 2010, 14:55	#31
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 16,942	Re: App says GS out, appears to be working... Use the VFR GPS as DME. As far as I'm concerned, I'm always ready to shoot a GPS approach with a hand held if things get bad enough. If my options are "fly until you run out of gas, and hope you find a field" and "shoot a GPS approach with an unapproved GPS that is very likely just as accurate as the one in the panel," then I'm taking my chances with the GPS. __________________ N6869R, on another radio, contact clearance for new airways...

February 7th, 2010, 15:55	#33
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 16,942	Re: App says GS out, appears to be working... I'm an internet bully because I suck at flying! It's the only way I have to vent! __________________ N6869R, on another radio, contact clearance for new airways...

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