A classic...

[Doug Taylor]

For whoever's legal department reads this, this is a HYPOTHETICAL situation.

On the crew van to the airport, you notice that one of your crew members smells of alcohol... The crewmember was also five minutes late for pick up at the hotel and seems a little disoriented.

Keep in mind that this crewmember, in this situation, is going to do his or her best to deny intoxication and most likely resist any cursory efforts to investigate.

Walk us through the process of what you'd do as the captain (or as the FO for that matter).

[mtsu_av8er]

I think that I'd first wait until we were out of the van and away from the public's ears. I would then, point blank, let the captain know that I smell alcohol, and that I believe that (s)he is under the influence of alcohol. I would vehemently suggest that (s)he pull him/herself off of duty immediately, before we even get into the building.

If (s)he refuses to do so, I would let them know that I have an obligation to my company, our passengers and above all, myself, to not allow him/her to attempt to fly the airplane in this condition. I'd also let him/her know that if (s)he didn't pull him/herself off of the flight, that I would have no choice but to go to the chief pilot and let them know what was going on.

Either way, I'd would give the other pilot ample opprtunity to do the right thing...

[Tokyo007]

I would call the chief pilot and work up the chain of command.. with something like..

"I dunno he was 5 min late, groggy and he smells like alcohol.. I can't prove he has and he's denying everything but I'm wondering if there's anyone on reserve that can run out for this leg so you can check him out?"

i'd avoid anything public or FAA unless I had no choice. I wouldn't be a happy camper in that van though..

(that's what I would do *shrugs*)

Matthew

[Mr_Creepy]

The key word is DELAY. You want to delay as long as possible, mostly to let them sober up!

I tell people NEVER to let that crewmember make it to security. For many reasons!

1) Security (TSA) is DYING to be the next headline for catching a "drunk pilot."
2) Once they are at security they are ON DUTY and you are now responsible for allowing an incapacitated crew member to assume duty.
3) Both of your names will be in the paper, not just his or hers!

Remember the four C's

Conversation. State the problem. "Captain I smell alcohol."
Concern. "I'm concerned that I smell alcohol. I think we need to do something about it."
Comfort. "I'm not comfortable going anywhere near TSA with a crewmember smelling like alcohol" ... and finally ...
Confrontation. "I'm sorry sir, but you are NOT going any further until you are completely sober and don't smell AT ALL."

[KhalReblic23]

I'd have to agree with some of the things already said and I don't think I'd do much different than most of you, but i'll say it anyways. This is my disclaimer to sounding like some previous peoples ideas LOL

Really, I would try to talk to him and tell him to get out of the flight, medically ground himself or something, anything. If he still denied it I'd definitaly go to a higher staff that wasnt to high but could take him off the flight nice and quietly, maybe repremand him in private. I'm not out to destroy someones career. And if that didnt go over well I'd just call the security on his ass and watch him get dragged out....even though that would be the pinnacle of horrible things I could do...I think it can be necessary at times.

I think this is pretty much what any right minded pilot would do.

[Doug Taylor]

One thing to think about is that if he attempts to go thru security, the TSA is going to have a field day and they love leaking stuff to the media. It's like sport. Plus, if he crosses the threshold of the aircraft, he's permanently fired without any chance of rehabilitation.

Here's the kicker, if you suspect a person is under the influence and you knowingly let him onto the aircraft, you're probably going to get fired too, at best, offered a chance to 'resign'.

I think if I was confronted with the situation and after repeated rejected attempts to resolve the situation, I'd hop on the cellular telephone and call in sick for him and then be prepared for the inquisition.

I guess another option would be to call in "unable to fly for safety reasons" and then when the crew scheduler asks what the circumstance is, direct them to the other crewmember.

But you've got to be 110% convinced of the situation.

[Brendan]

If I had any doubt about it, I would call the person on it, and tell them to go sleep it off. If they decide not to, then as everyone has said, up the chain of command till you get someone with the power to stop that person. I would let the pilot know then and there that if he doesnt listen to me and go back to the hotel, that I will make sure that he doesnt get to the plane, and might loose his job.
I had a prof at school tell me that a passanger came onto a flight that his buddy was working on, and made a comment to the pilots "I hope you boys arent drinking." The pilot who was my profs friend delayed the flight till he took a breathilizer test, to prove to the passanger that he wasnt. He made a big deal out of it, because it isnt a joking matter.
I dont care if a friend of 30 years was sloshed, I wouldnt help him out, I would do everything in my power to ground him. Drunk pilots is one stigma aviation has to get rid of.

[kellwolf]

LOL! JT, wasn't that you?

[Eagle737]

I know first hand the "problems" our crews face with TSA... I agree with not letting the crew member to the checkpoint... I think the real thing is that the confrontation... for lack of better term... should have been initiated on your part long before reaching the airport environment... It starts at the hotel... soon as that crewmember comes down the stairs or elevator late and smells of alcohol it is then your responsibility to confront the issue... Of course the objective is to stop the crewmember from becoming on-duty... but it is also to not stir up problems if you can help it... I have found that by offering options to a person it is much easier to get your way then to be confrontational... simply talk to your crewmember... something stupid to the fact... "Hey man, you really aren't lookin' to hot, do you feel alright?" ... "I'm really concerned you dont look well... why don't you call in sick man, it'll be okay, we'll get a reserve on this leg for you..." Give them options, they will be faster to take you up on it... more than likely they Know they're not in any shape to be flying.. they're just nervous to admit the truth to anyone and think that they can fake it... if caught and not confronted directly but more indirectly given choices you might find you'll have a better outcome...
-Chris

[ready2fly]

Eagle?!?!?!?!?!?!

[LISRAREF]

I say, Stop Look Listen Talk

Stop The Suspected Crew Member
Look At Him/Her Closely
Listen to anything if they speak
Tell Them Your Thoughts

If this dont work. Do anything in your right power to stop them from reaching security. Especially with the TSA around.

[sixpack]

T T T T.

Tell him the situation -- I smell alcohol on you breath
Try to reason with the captain -- I don't think you should proceed.
Take a stance -- We will not fly
Trip him as he's stepping off the van. If he's drunk, he'll fall flat on his face and and won't be able to fly. If he's sobor, he'll probably tuck and roll... no harm done.

[flyifrvfr]

I would tell the crewmember that I am not willing to risk my job, let alone my life, with someone who may have been drinking. I would then tell them the only option is too call in sick, if you don't, I will call dispatch and tell them my story. If dispatch wants to keep both of us out of the plane, that would be O.K. But I'am not going down for someone elses bad judgement.

[Androol]

Give the guy a good interrogation out of earshot of others. If your suspiscions (sp?) seem to be confirmed, do everything in your power to get the guy to call in sick. If he refuses, then it becomes CYA. Let him go through security and see if TSA catches him. If he makes it through, call dispatch/scheduling and lay it out straight. Tell them the guy appears to be under the influence of alcohol and you refuse to fly with him. If possible, get another crew member to confirm it. The big thing is give the guy every reasonable chance at an out. If he doesn't take it, then you should not have to be a babysitter. He was irresponsible, you shouldn't have to pay the price.

[ QUOTE ]
For whoever's legal department reads this, this is a HYPOTHETICAL situation.

On the crew van to the airport, you notice that one of your crew members smells of alcohol... The crewmember was also five minutes late for pick up at the hotel and seems a little disoriented.

Keep in mind that this crewmember, in this situation, is going to do his or her best to deny intoxication and most likely resist any cursory efforts to investigate.

Walk us through the process of what you'd do as the captain (or as the FO for that matter).

[/ QUOTE ]

I would wait until we got to the airport where I would notify authority (police). They would then give me a sobriety test and if he failed he would be in trouble with the airline.

[flyifrvfr]

After further thought, I would tell the van driver to return us to the hotel, call in sick, and join my drunk Crewmember for additional drinks. If the Crewmember is a lady, I would then suggest we hop in the sack and do it like Rabbits.

[I_Money]

[ QUOTE ]
After further thought, I would tell the van driver to return us to the hotel, call in sick, and join my drunk Crewmember for additional drinks. If the Crewmember is a lady, I would then suggest we hop in the sack and do it like Rabbits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it, but my biggest problem as one not wanting to miss a party these great ideas are really tough to come up with when nursing a hang over.

[montana]

[ QUOTE ]
After further thought, I would tell the van driver to return us to the hotel, call in sick, and join my drunk Crewmember for additional drinks. If the Crewmember is a lady, I would then suggest we hop in the sack and do it like Rabbits.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my idea too. Great minds think alike.

[ClipperPilot]

I personally would find a way to save this guy's ass. That is if he is an affable person and not a shmuck. People can make mistakes, or maybe have a little to much fun, but to bring down someone's career, or a life dream being lived out for going a little overboard? No, i would confront him, and have him call in sick, then tell him not everyone gives second chances. just my .02 cents

[SpiraMirabilis]

Eye him in the van ride. If you still think he is impaired when you get to the airport tell him to call scheduling and call in sick. Imply that you may call the Chief Pilot if he does not and insists on flying.

[C650CPT]

Excellent question, one we have all thought through as evidenced in the great replies. Everyone gets an A for theory.
I have a different take on this ... Forgive me Doug if this turns into a hijack ... not my intention.

Same scenerio ... suspected alcohol compromise.

Only difference you are flying for a small two person flight department, and there is no crew scheduling to call and if you are wrong it will cost you your job, and if you are right it could cost you your job ... How do you handle the other crewmember, how do you handle the principles that you are flying and they MUST get to the next destination as scheduled or loose an important deal.

Search deep, no text book answer here.

Jim

[JEP]

Originally Posted by C650CPT

Excellent question, one we have all thought through as evidenced in the great replies. Everyone gets an A for theory.
I have a different take on this ... Forgive me Doug if this turns into a hijack ... not my intention.

Same scenario ... suspected alcohol compromise.

Only difference you are flying for a small two person flight department, and there is no crew scheduling to call and if you are wrong it will cost you your job, and if you are right it could cost you your job ... How do you handle the other crew member, how do you handle the principles that you are flying and they MUST get to the next destination as scheduled or loose an important deal.

Search deep, no text book answer here.

Jim

If it could cost you our job either way, that would be tough. If you witnessed the drinking and it went past the 'rules' then you have to say no, I won't fly. But then again if it was "suspected" you probably didn't see it.

Can the plane be legally flown, single-pilot? If so, can you put him in the cockpit and make sure he does not touch the controls?

Self-imposed maintenance delay? What would happen if the wx actually called for a delay or cancel? They would have to think of something. Set up a conference call at FBO possibly? There has to be some options to deal with a delay of sorts in the event it wasn't alcohol related.

[CapnJim]

I'm down with delay, delay, delay. People make mistakes, and one of the easiest to make is having one too many on a fun overnight. If possible, I wouldn't get in the van in the first place. I'd ask Captain Rummy if I could talk to him in private, and tell him that his slip is showing. That would probably freak him out enough to call in sick, or at least come up with some delay for a few hours so that he could burn the rest of the stink out.

If we've already made it to the airport, I'd say do the same thing, but then we'd have to find a place for him to hide out. There's plenty of time to talk while bags are being unloaded, so I'd try to get him off to the side and say "Dude, I hate to say this, but you may thank me later: You smell like alcohol pretty bad, man. I really, really don't think you should try going through security. Maybe you can take the van back to the hotel for a few hours and call scheduling with a little 'food poisoning' action, if you know what I mean."

If he does it, fine. A career saved and an industries reputation preserved. If not, well, he's a big boy. I'm not going anywhere near security with him. I'll be a discreet 10 minutes behind. If he actually makes it through, I'm not going anywhere near the plane either. If it reaches that level, I'll just tell him that I'm just can't fly with him still smelling like alky. I'll do all the talking out of earshot of the gate, but I'll make it absolutely clear that if he dosen't call in sick, I will, and if the CP calls me about the sick call at an outstation, I'm going to spill the beans. That should be enough to make him pull the sickie.

In the '135' style scenario C650 described, I'd do the same thing. If I get canned for acting responsibly then I would take it as a good sign that I'm working for the wrong company. I would be more than happy to explain that on any future interview, as well as to the FAA if things get nasty.

[boeing 777-300]

Whack the crewmember over the head with a crowbar. Then ask the driver to pull over. Dump the crewmembers body into a ravine and watch it float into the ocean. end of problem.

[CaptChris]

Call 9-1-1