FO with scratchy voice

Doug Taylor · January 14th, 2004, 23:03

So your FO shows up for the first day with an extraordinarily hoarse voice.

He exclaims that he's not sick and has no apparent symptoms of being ill, but he's a little hard to understand at times because of potential laringitis.

Thoughts, if any?

flyguy · January 15th, 2004, 04:46

Well, its an interresting situation. Laringitis is very contagious so it could be a red flag, however he'd probably show some symptoms of being ill. If he shows no symptoms of being ill, or under the influence of medications, I guess I'd leave it up to him. If he feels fit to fly I'd probably let him, though it would depend on exactly how bad his voice was and how hard it is to understand him. I may advise him to drink some water to possibly clear up his throat so I can undrstand him better, and I'd probably handle the radio communications.

EatSleepFly · January 15th, 2004, 06:49

Its day one of the trip, and its potential laringitis. That means it might get worse and could easily last the duration of the trip. I'd try to get him to get off the trip. There's a reason the FAR's require pilots to read, speak, and understand english.

Besides, flying with a required crewmember who can't talk is just asking for a serious miscommunication- which then may need to be reported under NTSB 830.5(a)(2):

"Inability of any required flight crewmember to perform his normal flight duties as a result of injury or illness..."

C650CPT · January 15th, 2004, 08:43

ESF
A little legalistic and in my opionion a little unrealistic response. I would give the FO the benefit of the doubt and fly the trip, unless he is absolutely unable to speak and by then he probably would admitt he's unfit for flight. If I was kept from flying every time I wasn't 100 % I would loose my job, and so would about 99% of the people out there. Sometimes you just have to "cowboy up" or suck it up and get the job done. I am less concerned with a person like this than I am with the person who is constantly comeing up with ill excuses to avoid doing their job. With experience you will see that flying with a crew member who is not up to snuff is not a real big deal ... you just have to be aware of it up front and make the appropriate adjustments. Maybe let him fly today's legs and I would do all the radio work and then tommorrow we switch.
Just my .02 cents worth.

SteveC · January 15th, 2004, 08:46

Go flying.
If he gets worse, you can always have a replacement called in.
Just 'cause he starts the trip doesn't mean you have to use him the whole way.

MQAAord · January 15th, 2004, 11:30

Well, I had to call in sick once because I had tonsilitis so bad I could not speak. My voice was barely a whisper, and I knew I would not be able to yell evacuation commands if necessary.

The call to crew sched was interesting though, I couldn't talk, so the scheduler had a really tough time hearing me say my name and employee number. I had to say it about a dozen times before she finally understood what was going on!

av8rmsu · January 15th, 2004, 18:03

I'm with C650CPT...

Try it out the first day and see if it gets better or worse. He should be professional enough to know if he is fit to fly or not. Be honest with him and tell him your concerns, but let him make the decision for himself.

FL270 · January 15th, 2004, 19:17

My concern is effective communication ... not just the radios, but whether you are PF or PNF there are checklists (to read or respond) and callouts that need to be handled. If you can understand the guy well enough for those things to be taken care of properly, then start the trip. If it gets worse, drop him for a reserve when you pass through base again.

This has happened to me; my boss lost his voice during a layover in New York and couldn't speak for the return flight. We switched duties (I was supposed to be PF that day) so I could handle the radios. The difference between this and the airlines is that the same guy and I fly together in the same airplane ALL THE TIME. We are so used to one another's actions that we can communicate by hand signals without any loss of efficiency. Could be a different situation with an FO who, while s/he has the same standardized training you do, is quite possibly someone you've never met or flown with before. It really is a judgment call on the part of both pilots.

FL270

rhs · January 16th, 2004, 21:18

Isn't redundancy one of the reasons for having two pilots? If the captain is incapacitated and unable to fly, what happens? The FO can't even speak. How's he going to get the plane down without talking to ATC?

I'd say find a replacement.

SteveC · January 16th, 2004, 22:25

[ QUOTE ]
How's he going to get the plane down without talking to ATC?

[/ QUOTE ]
Uhhhh.....fly it?

JK

flyguy · January 17th, 2004, 07:49

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't redundancy one of the reasons for having two pilots? If the captain is incapacitated and unable to fly, what happens? The FO can't even speak. How's he going to get the plane down without talking to ATC?

I'd say find a replacement.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, yeah but how bad can it possibly be? If it is so bad that you really cannot understand him at all, and he wouldn't be able to communicate with ATC then i agree he should not fly. But the way I read it is he is somehwat difficult to understand. In this case the captain could handle the radio communications and in the unlikely event that the captain becomes incapacitated, he can handle it good enough to finnish the flight, maybe with some dificulty, but without creating a real danger. It can't be any worse than someone who is a little scetchy with their English which I hear on the radio ALL THE TIME in the busy airspace around OAK and SFO, and it dosn't create too many problems.

kellwolf · January 17th, 2004, 09:14

[ QUOTE ]
It can't be any worse than someone who is a little scetchy with their English which I hear on the radio ALL THE TIME in the busy airspace around OAK and SFO, and it dosn't create too many problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've run into some controllers on Miami App that fall into that category.

drummerboy · January 17th, 2004, 11:58

I would fly with him and if there was a problem later in the trip then we could deal with it then. If he has no other symptons he could have just been yelling to loud at the hockey game the night before.

drummerboy · January 17th, 2004, 12:00

Also how do you even know that it might be laringitis? I've had a few times where I have lost my voice just from yelling, or a bad cold that has gone away.

Doug Taylor · January 18th, 2004, 23:30

I think I'd have him call in sick.

All is fine and dandy, right up until you have a major system malfunction and you need to divide the crew up into pilot flying/handling radios and pilot running the checklist and getting the aircraft systems stabilized.

Like if you had to go on oxygen and run a cabin/cockpit smoke procedure, you're more or less down to 1 pilot communications-wise and it's hard enough running that procedure normally.

flyguy · January 19th, 2004, 01:00

I'm confused here, why does everyone seem to think the guy has gone completely mute?

Doug you yourself said, and I quote:

[ QUOTE ]
he's a little hard to understand at times

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is it such a big deal? He can still communicate, just not quite as well as normal. In the unlikely event of an emergency he'd be able to communicate if he had to wouldn't he?

EatSleepFly · January 19th, 2004, 10:15

I think we'd all have to hear him to make the call for ourselves.

8LegDay · September 28th, 2004, 15:01

Call in sick. Stay home, drink OJ and watch Top Gun untill 100% better. Respect the Profession and people you work with.

I_Money · September 29th, 2004, 01:50

One could only presume if it was not an illness, he must have been smoking marajuana, and/or other drugs. When going through security, I would jump up and down and be like HE IS ON DRUGS and was on *name a rival airline*. This was you saved your PR department a lot of hardwork, yet provided a safe flight, and the captain with the help he needed.

I_WANNA_BE_ATP · October 6th, 2004, 14:45

[ QUOTE ]
Well, its an interresting situation. Laringitis is very contagious so it could be a red flag, however he'd probably show some symptoms of being ill. If he shows no symptoms of being ill, or under the influence of medications, I guess I'd leave it up to him. If he feels fit to fly I'd probably let him, though it would depend on exactly how bad his voice was and how hard it is to understand him. I may advise him to drink some water to possibly clear up his throat so I can undrstand him better, and I'd probably handle the radio communications.

[/ QUOTE ]

Laringitis is only truely contagious if you have contact with his umm discharge, (like from a sneeze). Just being inthe cockpit should be ok. Just make sure HE washes his hands frequently and you also. You can get alcohol hand gel cleaner that does not need water at any drug store, newstand, supermarket. Also carring clorax wipes helps. I got stuff fromthe hospital I work in and this stuff kills everythings.
I would make sure he drinks lots of fluids, no sodas, or other caffienated stuff (YES I said limit his coffee!!!) You can get medication from any drug store called COLD EZZE or something similiar. Great stuff and doesn't taste that bad. When ever someone in our department starts sniffling we all chip in a get a huge bag of the stuff for all af us. And then see how his day goes. If it gets bad call dispatch and have a reserve take over.

Ophir · October 7th, 2004, 00:14

[ QUOTE ]
One could only presume if it was not an illness, he must have been smoking marajuana, and/or other drugs. When going through security, I would jump up and down and be like HE IS ON DRUGS and was on *name a rival airline*. This was you saved your PR department a lot of hardwork, yet provided a safe flight, and the captain with the help he needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with Iain. This guy is hungover and can't admit it. Get the breathalizer up there and fire his ass. Some people's kids.

Bog · November 11th, 2004, 21:33

What if the FO is a she and just has a very rhaspy (sp?) voice? She'd be doing the radios all bid so I could listen to it!

FutureLeader · December 12th, 2004, 22:52

Don't know how logical this would be but I would give him the benefit of the doubt and monitor him on the first leg. If necessary I would have a reserve pilot called in at the next destination and in the worse case scenario have him replaced there to prevent delay.

January 14th, 2004, 23:03	#1
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,749 Blog Entries: 1	FO with scratchy voice So your FO shows up for the first day with an extraordinarily hoarse voice. He exclaims that he's not sick and has no apparent symptoms of being ill, but he's a little hard to understand at times because of potential laringitis. Thoughts, if any?

January 15th, 2004, 04:46	#2
flyguy Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 2,071	Re: FO with scratchy voice Well, its an interresting situation. Laringitis is very contagious so it could be a red flag, however he'd probably show some symptoms of being ill. If he shows no symptoms of being ill, or under the influence of medications, I guess I'd leave it up to him. If he feels fit to fly I'd probably let him, though it would depend on exactly how bad his voice was and how hard it is to understand him. I may advise him to drink some water to possibly clear up his throat so I can undrstand him better, and I'd probably handle the radio communications.

January 15th, 2004, 06:49	#3
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: FO with scratchy voice Its day one of the trip, and its potential laringitis. That means it might get worse and could easily last the duration of the trip. I'd try to get him to get off the trip. There's a reason the FAR's require pilots to read, *speak, and understand english. Besides, flying with a required crewmember who can't talk is just asking for a serious miscommunication- which then may need to be reported under NTSB 830.5(a)(2): "Inability of any required flight crewmember to perform his normal flight duties as a result of injury or illness..."*

January 15th, 2004, 08:43	#4
C650CPT Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Home Sweet Home! Posts: 957	Re: FO with scratchy voice ESF A little legalistic and in my opionion a little unrealistic response. I would give the FO the benefit of the doubt and fly the trip, unless he is absolutely unable to speak and by then he probably would admitt he's unfit for flight. If I was kept from flying every time I wasn't 100 % I would loose my job, and so would about 99% of the people out there. Sometimes you just have to "cowboy up" or suck it up and get the job done. I am less concerned with a person like this than I am with the person who is constantly comeing up with ill excuses to avoid doing their job. With experience you will see that flying with a crew member who is not up to snuff is not a real big deal ... you just have to be aware of it up front and make the appropriate adjustments. Maybe let him fly today's legs and I would do all the radio work and then tommorrow we switch. Just my .02 cents worth.

January 15th, 2004, 08:46	#5
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,350	Re: FO with scratchy voice Go flying. If he gets worse, you can always have a replacement called in. Just 'cause he starts the trip doesn't mean you have to use him the whole way.

January 15th, 2004, 11:30	#6
MQAAord Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Looney Bin Posts: 8,795	Re: FO with scratchy voice Well, I had to call in sick once because I had tonsilitis so bad I could not speak. My voice was barely a whisper, and I knew I would not be able to yell evacuation commands if necessary. The call to crew sched was interesting though, I couldn't talk, so the scheduler had a really tough time hearing me say my name and employee number. I had to say it about a dozen times before she finally understood what was going on!

January 15th, 2004, 18:03	#7
av8rmsu Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pickwick Lake Posts: 448	Re: FO with scratchy voice I'm with C650CPT... Try it out the first day and see if it gets better or worse. He should be professional enough to know if he is fit to fly or not. Be honest with him and tell him your concerns, but let him make the decision for himself.

January 15th, 2004, 19:17	#8
FL270 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,101	Re: FO with scratchy voice My concern is effective communication ... not just the radios, but whether you are PF or PNF there are checklists (to read or respond) and callouts that need to be handled. If you can understand the guy well enough for those things to be taken care of properly, then start the trip. If it gets worse, drop him for a reserve when you pass through base again. This has happened to me; my boss lost his voice during a layover in New York and couldn't speak for the return flight. We switched duties (I was supposed to be PF that day) so I could handle the radios. The difference between this and the airlines is that the same guy and I fly together in the same airplane ALL THE TIME. We are so used to one another's actions that we can communicate by hand signals without any loss of efficiency. Could be a different situation with an FO who, while s/he has the same standardized training you do, is quite possibly someone you've never met or flown with before. It really is a judgment call on the part of both pilots. FL270

January 16th, 2004, 21:18	#9
rhs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Lone Star State Posts: 219	Re: FO with scratchy voice Isn't redundancy one of the reasons for having two pilots? If the captain is incapacitated and unable to fly, what happens? The FO can't even speak. How's he going to get the plane down without talking to ATC? I'd say find a replacement.

January 16th, 2004, 22:25	#10
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,350	Re: FO with scratchy voice [ QUOTE ] How's he going to get the plane down without talking to ATC? [/ QUOTE ] Uhhhh.....fly it? JK

January 17th, 2004, 07:49	#11
flyguy Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 2,071	Re: FO with scratchy voice [ QUOTE ] Isn't redundancy one of the reasons for having two pilots? If the captain is incapacitated and unable to fly, what happens? The FO can't even speak. How's he going to get the plane down without talking to ATC? I'd say find a replacement. [/ QUOTE ] Well, yeah but how bad can it possibly be? If it is so bad that you really cannot understand him at all, and he wouldn't be able to communicate with ATC then i agree he should not fly. But the way I read it is he is somehwat difficult to understand. In this case the captain could handle the radio communications and in the unlikely event that the captain becomes incapacitated, he can handle it good enough to finnish the flight, maybe with some dificulty, but without creating a real danger. It can't be any worse than someone who is a little scetchy with their English which I hear on the radio ALL THE TIME in the busy airspace around OAK and SFO, and it dosn't create too many problems.

January 17th, 2004, 09:14	#12
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,208	Re: FO with scratchy voice [ QUOTE ] It can't be any worse than someone who is a little scetchy with their English which I hear on the radio ALL THE TIME in the busy airspace around OAK and SFO, and it dosn't create too many problems. [/ QUOTE ] I've run into some controllers on Miami App that fall into that category.

January 17th, 2004, 11:58	#13
drummerboy Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 77	Re: FO with scratchy voice I would fly with him and if there was a problem later in the trip then we could deal with it then. If he has no other symptons he could have just been yelling to loud at the hockey game the night before.

January 17th, 2004, 12:00	#14
drummerboy Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 77	Re: FO with scratchy voice Also how do you even know that it might be laringitis? I've had a few times where I have lost my voice just from yelling, or a bad cold that has gone away.

January 18th, 2004, 23:30	#15
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,749 Blog Entries: 1	Re: FO with scratchy voice I think I'd have him call in sick. All is fine and dandy, right up until you have a major system malfunction and you need to divide the crew up into pilot flying/handling radios and pilot running the checklist and getting the aircraft systems stabilized. Like if you had to go on oxygen and run a cabin/cockpit smoke procedure, you're more or less down to 1 pilot communications-wise and it's hard enough running that procedure normally.

January 19th, 2004, 01:00	#16
flyguy Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 2,071	Re: FO with scratchy voice I'm confused here, why does everyone seem to think the guy has gone completely mute? Doug you yourself said, and I quote: [ QUOTE ] he's a little hard to understand at times [/ QUOTE ] Why is it such a big deal? He can still communicate, just not quite as well as normal. In the unlikely event of an emergency he'd be able to communicate if he had to wouldn't he?

January 19th, 2004, 10:15	#17
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: FO with scratchy voice I think we'd all have to hear him to make the call for ourselves.

September 28th, 2004, 15:01	#18
8LegDay Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 154	Re: FO with scratchy voice Call in sick. Stay home, drink OJ and watch Top Gun untill 100% better. Respect the Profession and people you work with.

September 29th, 2004, 01:50	#19
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,644	Re: FO with scratchy voice One could only presume if it was not an illness, he must have been smoking marajuana, and/or other drugs. When going through security, I would jump up and down and be like HE IS ON DRUGS and was on name a rival airline. This was you saved your PR department a lot of hardwork, yet provided a safe flight, and the captain with the help he needed.

October 6th, 2004, 14:45	#20
I_WANNA_BE_ATP Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: 3rd Rock From the Sun Posts: 841	Re: FO with scratchy voice [ QUOTE ] Well, its an interresting situation. Laringitis is very contagious so it could be a red flag, however he'd probably show some symptoms of being ill. If he shows no symptoms of being ill, or under the influence of medications, I guess I'd leave it up to him. If he feels fit to fly I'd probably let him, though it would depend on exactly how bad his voice was and how hard it is to understand him. I may advise him to drink some water to possibly clear up his throat so I can undrstand him better, and I'd probably handle the radio communications. [/ QUOTE ] Laringitis is only truely contagious if you have contact with his umm discharge, (like from a sneeze). Just being inthe cockpit should be ok. Just make sure HE washes his hands frequently and you also. You can get alcohol hand gel cleaner that does not need water at any drug store, newstand, supermarket. Also carring clorax wipes helps. I got stuff fromthe hospital I work in and this stuff kills everythings. I would make sure he drinks lots of fluids, no sodas, or other caffienated stuff (YES I said limit his coffee!!!) You can get medication from any drug store called COLD EZZE or something similiar. Great stuff and doesn't taste that bad. When ever someone in our department starts sniffling we all chip in a get a huge bag of the stuff for all af us. And then see how his day goes. If it gets bad call dispatch and have a reserve take over.

October 7th, 2004, 00:14	#21
Ophir Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: was Ophir, CO, now in SLC! Posts: 1,477	Re: FO with scratchy voice [ QUOTE ] One could only presume if it was not an illness, he must have been smoking marajuana, and/or other drugs. When going through security, I would jump up and down and be like HE IS ON DRUGS and was on name a rival airline. This was you saved your PR department a lot of hardwork, yet provided a safe flight, and the captain with the help he needed. [/ QUOTE ] I'm with Iain. This guy is hungover and can't admit it. Get the breathalizer up there and fire his ass. Some people's kids.

November 11th, 2004, 21:33	#22
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,152	Re: FO with scratchy voice What if the FO is a she and just has a very rhaspy (sp?) voice? She'd be doing the radios all bid so I could listen to it!

December 12th, 2004, 22:52	#23
FutureLeader Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 122	Re: FO with scratchy voice Don't know how logical this would be but I would give him the benefit of the doubt and monitor him on the first leg. If necessary I would have a reserve pilot called in at the next destination and in the worse case scenario have him replaced there to prevent delay.

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