Plane vs. Tornado

pntbllr233 · March 4th, 2008, 00:11

The other day out in OKC we had some bad storms come in. The storms at first were just dark clouds, but they soon changed to a lot of lightening. Around 7:45, OKC was put in a tornado warning. The area of concern was just about 2 miles north northeast of the field. My uncle is an employee for Delta and was on a flight into KOKC with his wife and my grandpa. I live south of OKC and I could hear the sirens from my place. I got a text message around 7:46 saying that my uncle's plane has just landed. I talked to my uncle later that night and he said that they had landed to the south which would be 17L or 17R. If you were the captain would you want to take the risk of flying into something like that? The storm was northeast and there approach brought them in from the northest. I am no pilot but that just seems a little dangerous. Why wouldn't you try to get clearance to divert or to wait for the storms to clear out of the area? Shouldn't the airport be closed for the time being? I would really like to know what you all think. Thanks for your time.

Mike

mikecweb · March 4th, 2008, 00:21

I wasn't there so I can't comment.

I hope others do the same and not MMQB another pilots decision.
I've taken off and landed in some #### that people shake over. I've also see airline pilots take off with people in the back I wouldn't want in the same city with me.
Everyone has a pucker factor and "safe" is proven when you park it at the end of the day not what someone else thinks.

pntbllr233 · March 4th, 2008, 00:29

That is true. What does MMQB stand for? I am not 100% on all the abbreviations yet.

mikecweb · March 4th, 2008, 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by pntbllr233

That is true. What does MMQB stand for? I am not 100% on all the abbreviations yet.

Monday Morning Quarterback

Doug Taylor · March 4th, 2008, 00:35

MMQB, I think is "Monday Morning Quarterback".

I dunno, I wasn't there, but as a pilot, you have to look at "localized" weather.

Say there's a hurricane in Miami.

But on your arrival path and at the airport, the weather is nothing more than IFR, gusty winds, well within limits of your aircraft's performance and comfort level.

What DOO ya do?

pntbllr233 · March 4th, 2008, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

MMQB, I think is "Monday Morning Quarterback".

I dunno, I wasn't there, but as a pilot, you have to look at "localized" weather.

Say there's a hurricane in Miami.

But on your arrival path and at the airport, the weather is nothing more than IFR, gusty winds, well within limits of your aircraft's performance and comfort level.

What DOO ya do?

Where are you landing at? If the weather is fine then go right ahead, but this storm was right on top of the airport. I am not saying the pilot made a bad decision. I just want to know why the plane was allowed to land. If there is a tornado warning, wouldn't the tower have to evacuate?

mikecweb · March 4th, 2008, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by pntbllr233

Where are you landing at? If the weather is fine then go right ahead, but this storm was right on top of the airport. I am not saying the pilot made a bad decision. I just want to know why the plane was allowed to land. If there is a tornado warning, wouldn't the tower have to evacuate?

Then the airport would go Class G.
Been there done that.

pntbllr233 · March 5th, 2008, 01:05

So I think it is safe to assume that Class G means the airport is closed. Am I correct?

ackeight · March 5th, 2008, 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by pntbllr233

So I think it is safe to assume that Class G means the airport is closed. Am I correct?

Nope, just your normal uncontrolled field. I've heard these words exactly as they were evacuating. "Land at your own risk".

mikecweb · March 5th, 2008, 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ackeight

Nope, just your normal uncontrolled field. I've heard these words exactly as they were evacuating. "Land at your own risk".

Exactly.
Get in a little earlier probably...

Minnesota_Flyer · March 5th, 2008, 14:03

You do have to be careful. FAA went to town on a NWA captain a few years back for trying to land in FSD with a tornado on the ground in the vicinity of the airport. But the bare fact there was a tornado warning does not necessarily mean the airport was unsafe at the time.

pntbllr233 · March 6th, 2008, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ackeight

Nope, just your normal uncontrolled field. I've heard these words exactly as they were evacuating. "Land at your own risk".

That would be an interesting end to a long flight. So Class G puts the decision on the captain on whether or not to land, right? So at what point would the tower tell you "NO WAY" and begin diverting traffic?

ackeight · March 6th, 2008, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by pntbllr233

That would be an interesting end to a long flight. So Class G puts the decision on the captain on whether or not to land, right? So at what point would the tower tell you "NO WAY" and begin diverting traffic?

Well if tower isn't there then no one is there to tell you No. Usually tower doesn't tell you to not land unless the airport is closed, and to close an aiport it takes a lot.

pntbllr233 · March 6th, 2008, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ackeight

Well if tower isn't there then no one is there to tell you No. Usually tower doesn't tell you to not land unless the airport is closed, and to close an airport it takes a lot.

So if the tower is empty, who gives the approaching aircraft not on the tower frequency their landing clearance? Would approach tell you "land at your own risk"?

mikecweb · March 6th, 2008, 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by pntbllr233

So if the tower is empty, who gives the approaching aircraft not on the tower frequency their landing clearance? Would approach tell you "land at your own risk"?

You'd "clear" yourself to land.
I think one thing you're thinking is a tower determines if it's safe to land or not and thus issues a landing clearance. This isn't the case. If the tower is operating they're mostly there to control surface movements and clear you to land if the runway is clear or will be clear. The tower can't cancel your landing clearance because they think the conditions are unsafe. Thats the job of the pilot to determine.

launchpad · March 6th, 2008, 07:17

all tower is telling you when they say "cleared to land" is that they will space and move aircraft around enough so that the runway is clear by the time you get to it. Weather and other factors make absolutely no impact on their decision to clear you to land. The pilots ultimately make the decision of whether it is safe or not to land the airplane....

PGA07 · March 6th, 2008, 10:09

As others have said, I was not there so I can not comment on the decision. However, I can provide some info. on storms and tornados, in general.

99 times out of 100 the cells that produce tornados move in an East/Northeast direction. The rotation of the air that will produce a funnel cloud is counter clock wise, which is against the mass air movement. When that funnel does appear and drops to become a tornado, they are on the back side of those cells, usually the Southwest corner. They then move to the East/Northeast. They may infact change directions for a brief time, however, they still maintain their East/Northeast movement.

Therefore, with the field being Southwest of the storm, I would say it was fairly safe to continue the flight, given that they were in clear weather behind the storm.

pntbllr233 · March 6th, 2008, 13:56

That is true about the weather.

So how does the pilot find out about the problems on the ground? Does the ATIS tell him about a "possible" tornado or would dispatch tell him?

I really appreciate all the answers. I know I may be asking a lot of questions, but I don't have the aviation knowledge all of you have. Thanks again.