You're the FO: Captain and Noise Abatement

[Snow]

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Violations and all-expenses-paid trips to the chief pilot's office are issued in pairs.

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Well in that case I'd probably mention it in a non-threating way.

As an interesting side note, I read a case study a while back that found somthing like 40-60% of first officers would allow the captain to fly the aircraft into the ground without saying anything.

[I_Money]

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"Hey Capt, thanks for not doing the Noise Abatement Procedure, we would've hit those birds!"

Always CYA when the cockpit voice recorder is running

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That is great!! I love it!!

[ShoreFly]

Thanks Iain, I know it may seem like just cockpit humor, but I've actually done it, slightly different circumstance.

[flycanuck]

"did you hear that?"

and if he didn't ask him why not.

[Minuteman]

They'd actually pull a CVR for a noise abatement trigger?!? That's so not cool.

[ERAU_Intern]

I think it all comes down to S.A. Like C650 said, if you mentioned it in the pre-takeoff brief, and he still ignored it, then its the Captains problem. You covered your tail and got the brief on the CVR, and you KNOW he is aware of what needs to be done, so if the boss wants to disregard it, fine, but he is the one who goes down for it when the Chief Pilot starts asking questions.

[PurduePilot]

Guys... unless I'm missing something CVRs only record for 30 minutes and then they record over the old stuff.

Most flights are over 30 minutes long. Even if the t/o brief was given, they couldn't tell what was said because it would have been recorded over.

[FlyChicaga]

You are correct, only the last 30 minutes is recorded. That's why our new checklists which just came out have: "AFTER NTSB REPORTABLE EVENT CVR BREAKER.....PULL". I'm not sure exactly why the FAA wanted that added, I believe it had to due with the ATA 757-300 runover incident.

[sorrygottarunway]

BEFORE EMBARASSING EVENT CVR BREAKER.....PULL

[Doug Taylor]

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BEFORE EMBARASSING EVENT CVR BREAKER.....PULL

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I've got stories, but you've got to wait for the book!

[davetheflyer]

Tactfully remind him that we are supposed to do whatever for the NA. If he blows it off, call pro standards.

[Bog]

There's a noise abatement procedure for John Wayne Santa Ana Orange County Irvine International Airport? Dang! Why am I not informed of these things! Better go erase those trips from my logbook.

If it's your first trip with the Capt, you're both taking time to figure each other out. Wait for cruise, start updating your Jepps, and say "Hey wasn't that NA procedure back there a b!atch?" Just be nice ... no-one likes a know-it-all FO. That's why no-one wants to fly with me.

Everyone makes mistakes, even when it's intentional.

[Seggy]

What are the fines and any other punishments you could recieve for violating a Noise Abatement procedure?

Also leaving TPA the other day there was a sign before the runway that read "Thank you for following Noise Abatement Procedures" I guess that should remind the Captain if he 'forgets'

[mrivc211]

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First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that in the eyes of the FAA noise abatment procedures are purely voluntary

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yah they are voluntary, BUT you CAN still get fined for it! So what woudl you chose? Adhere to the request or get fined?

[fr8dog]

Plus you can get banned at some airports
(tail number ban)
Not cool really

[MikeD]

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First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that in the eyes of the FAA noise abatment procedures are purely voluntary

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yah they are voluntary, BUT you CAN still get fined for it! So what woudl you chose? Adhere to the request or get fined?

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I don't worry too much about noise abatement. If in my normal ops I can comply, I'll do my best to. If it's unnecessary or out-of-the-way a$$ pain, then I'll still do my somewhat-best to comply. If it's REALLY out of the way, and ATC queries me, I'll waive it.

BL is, regardless of the noise abatement procedure, it's never good enough. Reference Scottsdale Airport.

[sixpack]

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"Hey Capt, thanks for not doing the Noise Abatement Procedure, we would've hit those birds!"

Always CYA when the cockpit voice recorder is running

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This one get's my vote.

And for a little bit of insurance. The Captain's response: Those weren't just birds. Those were spotted owls.

[flyifrvfr]

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It all goes back to the pre take off briefing, was the Noise Abatement procedure briefed and briefed back? If it was and that is what you were expecting the Cpt. to do and he didn't there is a larger issue of crew resource management or pilot performance issues that needs to be adressed, that is more of a safety issue than the noise abatement is. If it wasn't briefed then I would post flight critique that WE missed it and will include such procedures in future pre take off briefings.
My situation stated on another thread was the latter, never briefed, we were in the go home mode.

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I second the above, I would have briefed the procedure and if it was not followed, will wait until in cruise to ask the Captain why it wasn't followed.

[Androol]

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Guys... unless I'm missing something CVRs only record for 30 minutes and then they record over the old stuff.

Most flights are over 30 minutes long. Even if the t/o brief was given, they couldn't tell what was said because it would have been recorded over.

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At my company we have irregularity reports if there is an issue so the CVR isn't really needed. If such an incident occured, fill out an irregularity report and state that the noise abatement procedure was discussed prior to departure and it was expected. The captain failed to follow the procedure, but you did not correct him/her on it at the time as it was a critical phase of flight and it did not affect safety. That way when the company gets a nasty letter and fine about busting the noise limits, your side of the story is already on file with the chief pilot when it comes time for the carpet dance.