Landing at the wrong airport...

BobDDuck · July 17th, 2007, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyDean

From the captains point of view, that's probably the most embarrassing thing I could think of, short of landing at the wrong airport. But even then you can salvage some dignity by greasing the landing.

I don't want to piggyback on to your thread, but the captain I was flying with last week and I were discussing this. Say it's 2 in the morning and you land at the wrong (uncontrolled) airport. Do you a) confess, call the nearest approach/center/flight service and then work out a new flight plan to your destination with dispatch or do you b) just firewall it and head off to the correct airport with nobody the wiser?

zmiller4 · July 18th, 2007, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

I don't want to piggyback on to your thread, but the captain I was flying with last week and I were discussing this. Say it's 2 in the morning and you land at the wrong (uncontrolled) airport. Do you a) confess, call the nearest approach/center/flight service and then work out a new flight plan to your destination with dispatch or do you b) just firewall it and head off to the correct airport with nobody the wiser?

1. Call Union rep, if available, or fill out ALPA card and send in immediately.
2. Call Dispatch, MOD, whoever.
3. Start thinking up excuses.

There's NO WAY I would risk blasting off with a bunch of pax on board who are without a doubt going to wonder why their nonstop had a stop. ACARS will tell on you if it's there, as could ATC's radar. You can save your job if you suck it up and admit it, but if you try to cover it up and get caught your career is probably over.

And the original situation--is it even legal to change the PIC like that after the flight has been started? I'm pretty skeptical...and I don't know if I'd be recounting that story on the internet.

BobDDuck · July 18th, 2007, 21:54

From what I can tell as long as you don't take off again with out the paperwork, you haven't broken any FARs as long as it was an uncontrolled field.

JimmyDean · July 20th, 2007, 10:06

Isn't the release only valid to the destination airport? In other words, if you land at the wrong uncontrolled field, haven't you violated the release (and therefore a FAR or two)?

BobDDuck · July 20th, 2007, 15:30

Yes and no. You can ALWAYS divert to an airport not on the release. However, unintentionally landing at one? I don't know.

ComplexHiAv8r · July 20th, 2007, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Yes and no. You can ALWAYS divert to an airport not on the release. However, unintentionally landing at one? I don't know.

You diverted to other field because you were low and lined up for the runway! It only sounded logical to land.

If you noticed while landing it was the wrong field could you just do a T&G and continue to the correct field?

MFT1Air · July 21st, 2007, 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Yes and no. You can ALWAYS divert to an airport not on the release. However, unintentionally landing at one? I don't know.

. . .which begs that question from me of "who's going to admit it was unintentional?" Who and why are you going to admit that type of mistake?

I like the touch and go point of view.

Now, neophyte question from a ASEL - private. With improved navaids, can they happen with some significant regularity? Isolated? Perhaps, but can it happen at an uncontrolled airport in these days? Proximity wise, sounds kinda hard to imagine, but I don't know.

Duksrule · July 21st, 2007, 10:34

Back in I think 90 or 91 it all runs together..... Anyway I was on the IKE and my airwing was the last ones with A-7s. The Saratoga was out with us and they had the shiny new F-18s. Imagine everyones surprise when we had a hornet in the break. Yeap guy landed on the wrong boat. We zapped the hell out of that plane and sent him home.

Ralgha · July 22nd, 2007, 12:49

There was a guy here who landed at the wrong airport. He didn't tell anyone and hopped over to the correct airport (don't know what the FO's opinion was). Sadly for him, there were a couple non-revs in the back who noticed. He got fired (don't know what happened to the FO).

BobDDuck · July 22nd, 2007, 15:34

The story that brought this conversation up involved a CHQ crew back in the mid 1990s who had the ND basketball team on board as a charter and while returning to South Bend at 2 in the morning landed at Elkhart. They just took off again and landed in South Bend. Nobody was any the wiser until the travel coordinator for the basketball team asked the Chief Pilot why they stopped in Elkhart first the previous trip.

OldTownPilot · July 22nd, 2007, 21:57

Its not just a regional thing. CAL had a crew land at the wrong airport down in texas somewhere. Don't remember the specifics.

If I was Flying say BOS-BHB for Colgan I'd just Say "any pax for the RKD stop? Anyone? alright, onto Bah Habah"

JimmyDean · July 25th, 2007, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

If you noticed while landing it was the wrong field could you just do a T&G and continue to the correct field?

I don't think most companies are approved for t+g in their ops specs. But that's six 709 rides on one hand, and a half dozen on the other.

Also, to answer MFT1Air's question, it is possible in these days of GPS and improved navaids to land at the wrong airport. Mostly because not everyone has GPS and not every airport has a functioning navaid nearby. However, with appropriate planning and

, there's no excuse.

falconvalley · July 25th, 2007, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralgha

There was a guy here who landed at the wrong airport. He didn't tell anyone and hopped over to the correct airport (don't know what the FO's opinion was). Sadly for him, there were a couple non-revs in the back who noticed. He got fired (don't know what happened to the FO).

The exact same thing happened here a while back. Both crewmembers got canned for it. Numerous FARs were violated when they took off without saying a word to anyone.

BobDDuck · July 25th, 2007, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconvalley

The exact same thing happened here a while back. Both crewmembers got canned for it. Numerous FARs were violated when they took off without saying a word to anyone.

The FO was my then roommate's good friend. From what I heard, the FO was asked to resign before the company fired him and hence would have a clean record. He has since gotten on at another regional. I don't know about the captain.

I've seen first hand how it would be possible to land at the wrong airport, even with all kinds of modern technology. I was jumpseating into Dayton on an USAir Express (not one of the wholly owned) CRJ and the FO who was very new offered to set up everything for the captain (FMS/ILS Freqs/Min Altitudes etc). The captain who I already thought was a pretty big ass from some of the stuff he had been saying) told the FO that it was a nice day out and it wasn't necessary. He told the FO to call the field in sight about 25 miles out (I didn't see it and I am based out of there). Anyhow about 5 miles later I realize he has lined up for Wright Patterson and not DAY. Being in the jumpseat I don't really want to say anything but going through about 1200 feet I pointed out that Dayton has two parallels with a terminal complex in the middle. He immediately starts cursing and yelling for the FO to start setting things up. I was glad I was getting off when we landed.

falconvalley · July 25th, 2007, 17:56

Boy were they lucky to have you onboard!

JDMcFly · July 25th, 2007, 23:59

I imagine the best way to save face (and career) in this situation would to say:

"We messed up, A, B, and C went wrong (led to failure in safety), and this is what we (as an airline) could do in the future to prevent the situation from happening again."

Just taking off again is a bad, bad, bad idea.

EDUC8-or · July 26th, 2007, 07:50

NWA landed at an AFB a year or two ago in an Airbus.

calcapt · July 26th, 2007, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

Its not just a regional thing. CAL had a crew land at the wrong airport down in texas somewhere. Don't remember the specifics.

It was a very well respected check airman giving first leg of IOE to a new FO. Captain was very seasoned and it was a surprise to all of us when his name surfaced as the PIC. After learning of the details, we all were a little less smug by knowing if it happened to this guy, it could happen to any of us. BTW, both pilots are still employed and doing well because they didn't attempt to hide or do something stupid like take off again or lie about what happened. There is no approved data for a 737 takeoff from the field they landed at; therefore, they would of been violated and fired had they attemped it. Here is a brief narrative from the NTSB report:

The flight was issued vectors to intercept the final approach course of Runway 31 at Corpus Christi International Airport, and was cleared for the localizer 31 approach. The first officer was manipulating the controls, the In-Range and Approach checklists were completed, and the approach was briefed. A previous aircraft had requested the ILS RWY 13 approach and the tower controller had switched the ILS localizer from 31 to 13. After the completion of the approach, the tower controller did not reselect the localizer 31 approach. The flightcrew tuned in the localizer for Runway 31; however, they did not identify it by morse code. The captain reported that the localizer for Runway 31 was intercepted, 'although at the very beginning the course deviation bar did a couple of full scale deflections, but locked on 7 miles southeast' of the final approach fix. The aircraft was in and out of a broken cloud layer at 2,000 feet msl and the visibility was about 5 to 6 miles. After verifying all instruments were properly configured for the approach, the captain looked outside and 'saw a runway at the northern edge of the cloud they were in and out of.' The runway also had the number 31 painted on its approach end. The captain reported the field in sight to approach control and he was instructed to contact tower control. Tower cleared the flight to land. The flight landed at Cabaniss Field which is a Navy auxiliary field located 5 nautical miles southeast of Corpus Christi International Airport. Cabaniss is located on the final approach course for Runway 31 to Corpus Christi. The first officer had just completed ground and simulator differences training for the Boeing 737-300/500 series aircraft, and this was the first flight of his initial operating experience (IOE) for differences training in the aircraft. The first officer had never been to Corpus Christi, and it had been three years since the captain had been there.

Bigey · July 26th, 2007, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by calcapt

It was a very well respected check airman giving first leg of IOE to a new FO. Captain was very seasoned and it was a surprise to all of us when his name surfaced as the PIC. After learning of the details, we all were a little less smug by knowing if it happened to this guy, it could happen to any of us. BTW, both pilots are still employed and doing well because they didn't attempt to hide or do something stupid like take off again or lie about what happened. There is no approved data for a 737 takeoff from the field they landed at; therefore, they would of been violated and fired had they attemped it. Here is a brief narrative from the NTSB report:

The flight was issued vectors to intercept the final approach course of Runway 31 at Corpus Christi International Airport, and was cleared for the localizer 31 approach. The first officer was manipulating the controls, the In-Range and Approach checklists were completed, and the approach was briefed. A previous aircraft had requested the ILS RWY 13 approach and the tower controller had switched the ILS localizer from 31 to 13. After the completion of the approach, the tower controller did not reselect the localizer 31 approach. The flightcrew tuned in the localizer for Runway 31; however, they did not identify it by morse code. The captain reported that the localizer for Runway 31 was intercepted, 'although at the very beginning the course deviation bar did a couple of full scale deflections, but locked on 7 miles southeast' of the final approach fix. The aircraft was in and out of a broken cloud layer at 2,000 feet msl and the visibility was about 5 to 6 miles. After verifying all instruments were properly configured for the approach, the captain looked outside and 'saw a runway at the northern edge of the cloud they were in and out of.' The runway also had the number 31 painted on its approach end. The captain reported the field in sight to approach control and he was instructed to contact tower control. Tower cleared the flight to land. The flight landed at Cabaniss Field which is a Navy auxiliary field located 5 nautical miles southeast of Corpus Christi International Airport. Cabaniss is located on the final approach course for Runway 31 to Corpus Christi. The first officer had just completed ground and simulator differences training for the Boeing 737-300/500 series aircraft, and this was the first flight of his initial operating experience (IOE) for differences training in the aircraft. The first officer had never been to Corpus Christi, and it had been three years since the captain had been there.

Imagine talking to the tower.

CAL: "Tower, we're on kilo can we get directions to the gate?"
Tower: "Uh i dont see you, take next available taxiway and hold"
CAL: "Uhh tower, we're holding, but i just see some F-15s"
Tower: "Uhh alright, just continue holding, Contact Cabaniss on 124.75 good luck, and i hope you keep your job!"

Lee D · October 1st, 2007, 02:13

A friend of mine is a retired AA Captain. He once mentioned a similar situation where a 121 crew he knew of had landed at the wrong airport, realized the mistake and then simply departed again. Lost their jobs of course. Had they stayed on the ground, confessed and straightened the issue out their employment status would have remained the same.

captainflyguy · October 2nd, 2007, 18:21

I heard of this happening also but I forgot what airline. The captain instructed everyone to shut their windowshades!!!!!!

dispatchguy · October 18th, 2007, 06:19

An American Eagle/Executive crew did that.

Landed at the wrong airport on the island of St Lucia in the Caribbean, realized their screw up, and simply redeparted without talking to company, tower, or anyone.

The chief pilot had some crew behinds for breakfast that morning. He took a new crew and airplane down to St Lucia, and fired them in the outstation; and they had to find their own way back home.

MD-11Loader · November 7th, 2007, 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralgha

There was a guy here who landed at the wrong airport. He didn't tell anyone and hopped over to the correct airport (don't know what the FO's opinion was). Sadly for him, there were a couple non-revs in the back who noticed. He got fired (don't know what happened to the FO).

I can see how it happened, the airport that they landed at was only like 17 miles from CWA.

firebirdswm · November 7th, 2007, 09:59

I used to live in Frankfort, KY and everyone there talked about how a Delta 737 had landed there one time thinking they were at LEX. The story was that they had to remove all the unnecessary items from the aircraft in order for it to take off again. Anyone know anything about that? I think it was late 80s-early 90s sometime...before I lived there.

esa17 · November 7th, 2007, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by firebirdswm

I used to live in Frankfort, KY and everyone there talked about how a Delta 737 had landed there one time thinking they were at LEX. The story was that they had to remove all the unnecessary items from the aircraft in order for it to take off again. Anyone know anything about that? I think it was late 80s-early 90s sometime...before I lived there.

Capt. Simon likes to go over that one in CRM.