Fistfight over the Atlantic

flywithUS · June 6th, 2007, 21:57

You are on your way to Europe from a midwest/west coast city when your F/O and relief pilot get into a fistfight. Being professionals, the plane lands safely with no more issues, just a tension filled cockpit.

You knew going into the trip that there has been bad blood between the two for awhile but you never would have thought it would escalade to this. So what do you do? You could trust them and finish up the trip, but would you ever leave the two alone in the cockpit, even though that would mean a very long flight without rest. Or would you call in for a new pilot? The only problem with that is that this is not a daily route, with the next flight scheduled three days from now.

Ready. Set. Discuss.

ComplexHiAv8r · June 6th, 2007, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by flywithUS

You are on your way to Europe from a midwest/west coast city when your F/O and relief pilot get into a fistfight. Being professionals, the plane lands safely with no more issues, just a tension filled cockpit.

You knew going into the trip that there has been bad blood between the two for awhile but you never would have thought it would escalade to this. So what do you do? You could trust them and finish up the trip, but would you ever leave the two alone in the cockpit, even though that would mean a very long flight without rest. Or would you call in for a new pilot? The only problem with that is that this is not a daily route, with the next flight scheduled three days from now.

Ready. Set. Discuss.

I am just a Part91 pilot, but I would say NO to both. Get a new crew, apparently they have issues to resolve......OUT OF THE COCKPIT!

my .02

OldTownPilot · June 6th, 2007, 22:44

Fist fight, The plane diverts to the nearest suitable airport and both those yahoos don't see the cockpit on my airplane. End of story.

I go on rest and a replacement crew gets flown in to complete the flight. Either that or an entire replacement crew gets flown in and I go home.

Doug Taylor · June 7th, 2007, 01:13

After the plane lands, either they're being replaced or I'm being replaced.

No thanks man!

Maximillian_Jenius · June 7th, 2007, 02:49

Also. If their is a fist fight between two pilots in veiw of pax, but more especially in the cockpit at altitude. I'd think that it'd be mandatory to report it and both pilots would be immediately suspended pending their termination!

mikecweb · June 7th, 2007, 06:50

Call Chuck Norris....

mnixon · June 7th, 2007, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Call Chuck Norris....

Chuck Norris ain't got nothing on you Kenny Loggins.

EDUC8-or · June 7th, 2007, 20:48

I wanna get me one of those Escalades with the shiny rims and big tires.

Princess Pilot · June 7th, 2007, 23:37

If I knew ahead of time there was bad blood, I would be watching for it and tried to prevent it from excalating to a street fight. Cut them off at the pass, so to speak. Remind them that they are professionals and to keep personal issues away from the cockpit. They are there to transport passengers safely to their destination, not try to kill each other at 35,000 feet. After landing, I would report it to the company if the situation did end up a real fistfight. Hopefully, the three days till the next flight out will be enough for them to cool off and grow up. Hopefully.

jtrain609 · June 8th, 2007, 00:56

There would be no cooling off period. The guy that threw the first punch would get fired no questions asked, and if they other guy decided to turn it into a real brawl I'm guessing they'd get rid of him too.

I think Doug has a story about something like this on a ramp somewhere...

sdfcvoh · June 8th, 2007, 14:43

Make them hold hands while the passengers depart

calcapt · June 8th, 2007, 15:41

This behavior, in addition to being unprofessional and a threat to safety, is disrespectful to the crew. They are compromising the entire flight over their bad behavior. One quick warning is warranted without further action; however, if any hint of additional bad blood is shown, they will both be replaced at the destination airport. Keep the relief officer in the back of the aircraft for the duration of the flight to avoid interaction. If any question exists about their ability to perform safely and professionally until you reach your scheduled destination, you should land at the nearest suitable airport and have them removed and replaced. This action will likely cost them their jobs. I can't imagine a situation where this behavior would continue, particularly after they have been warned about throwing them off the trip.
JMHO

mtsu_av8er · June 8th, 2007, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdfcvoh

Make them hold hands while the passengers depart

Were you one of my Drill Instructors?

IWExcelsiorE · June 9th, 2007, 07:36

Well, it depends, what are they fighting over?

If it's a dispute about who gets the chicken and who gets the fish, then they both get lasagna. Problem solved.

Doug Taylor · June 10th, 2007, 16:41

Ehh, the source of the 'fight' doesn't matter as they can solve that with AT LEAST the chairman of professional standards.

I'd probably just call him/her on arrival and let them sort it out what to do.

BTW, if you physically assualt another crewmember, you're going to have your arse fired and you're pretty much screwed the rest of your career. Even if you keep you job, you're going to be on double-secret probation the rest of your career. Show up late for a trip and "Oh, that's the 'problem' pilot, there's impetus to let him go".

True story. When I was a CFI, we had an employee that had a litanny of behavioral problems.

Bigoted, opinionated, would backstab you in a heartbeat to capture your students, everything. The kind of guy that when you take a day off, he's in the chief pilot's office demading your multi-engine students because "Doug Taylor's lazy and I'm here. I need teh flight time because United's going to call him with or without the experience because of affirmative action".

OOOO KKKKKKK!

It's pretty hard to get my craw so I largely ignored his antics.

Anyway, he took his unchecked attitude problem to a regional airline, had a disagreement with his captain a few months/years into his new job and ended up punching the guy.

Fired. On the spot.

Violence in the workplace is unacceptable. I don't give a crap how mad you are but we're professionals and nothing about being a professional says anything about tolerable reasons for physical assaults.

Now, no one will hire the guy. It doesn't matter about his experience level, how many bridge programs he's gone thru or how much turbine time he has, he's a risk to a flight department and that termination is part of his "Pilot Records Improvement Act" file.

Totally screwed. And it's his own fault.

Check your anger before you permantently wreck your career.

It happens!

DZERO · June 11th, 2007, 22:21

Hopefully by the time a person reaches the phase of his/her career where they are doing hops over the Atlantic in an ER, they would have been "weeded" out of the industry.

ready2fly · June 14th, 2007, 12:28

We have (notice I said "have" ...as in he is still here) a captain here who has been fired - twice - for being abusive to FO's. The last time, he actually slapped the FO's hand as he was reaching for a button on the overhead panel.

Yet - they rehired him..... again.

I've recently added my name to the DNF list (not that there's an official DNF list here) because of his irrational behavior in the cockpit.

But, that's a story for another thread.......

Regarding the posted example: I'm with those who said "either they go, or I go". It's a Safety issue. Period.`

BE19Pilot · June 14th, 2007, 23:53

Simple solution...Call crew scheduling and have them both replaced OR I'm being replaced, calling off sick. No valid reason whatsoever for that kind of behavior in any kind of workplace nevermind an airline cockpit.

CapnJim · June 15th, 2007, 14:14

Call to the authorities as soon as we're on the ground. The guy who escalated it to a physical confrontation (threw the first punch, pushed, grabbed, or otherwise touched) gets assault charges, the other guy gets of on self-defense but still gets a carpet dance.

Oh, by the way, the first Captain that slaps my anything better have a strong jaw, as I tend to view personal self-defense in a cockpit environment with an eye towards extreme prejudice.

sate · October 10th, 2007, 18:20

What happens if its an RJ, and the CA and FO are at odds over an union issue, and before you know what happened. They both fall out of the flight deck and onto the jetway, just as the gate agent says " you ready to board."

cfii2007 · December 17th, 2007, 20:15

Uh....................

zachpilot · December 19th, 2007, 09:19

For those who said, "either they go or I go" I have a question for you. How do explain wanting off the flight? Sick? By asking off the flight are you just passing the problem off to your replacement, which still puts the passengers in an unsafe situation.

I believe something must be said to someone in management, I.E. Chief Pilot, Director of Operations etc. These two need to be off flight status till their problem is resolved.

KF

Doug Taylor · December 19th, 2007, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachpilot

For those who said, "either they go or I go" I have a question for you. How do explain wanting off the flight? Sick? By asking off the flight are you just passing the problem off to your replacement, which still puts the passengers in an unsafe situation.

I believe something must be said to someone in management, I.E. Chief Pilot, Director of Operations etc. These two need to be off flight status till their problem is resolved.

KF

Nah, get off the flight, file a report to C.Y.A. and be ready for the inevitable call from the chief pilot.

taseal · December 20th, 2007, 02:36

a fistfight?

lol

knock them both out, and land the plane

cencal83406 · January 4th, 2008, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ready2fly

We have (notice I said "have" ...as in he is still here) a captain here who has been fired - twice - for being abusive to FO's. The last time, he actually slapped the FO's hand as he was reaching for a button on the overhead panel.

Yet - they rehired him..... again.

I've recently added my name to the DNF list (not that there's an official DNF list here) because of his irrational behavior in the cockpit.

But, that's a story for another thread.......

Regarding the posted example: I'm with those who said "either they go, or I go". It's a Safety issue. Period.`

My sim partner in training was like this. His 14K hours to mine seemed to entitle him to putting me down and actually smacking my hand. He left our company before finishing training though. Evidently he's too good of a pilot for us (or he just didn't like procedures??!?).

I also wanted to add that the sim instructor called us BOTH out on this because, when he did that, I told him while we were flying in the sim not to hit me in the hand again. Was that an out of line request??