Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 - Page 2

GatorFC · July 22nd, 2005, 01:22

Damn sim instructors - always wanting to come up with a Kobayashi Maru type scenario.

kellwolf · July 22nd, 2005, 15:43

[ QUOTE ]
Damn sim instructors - always wanting to come up with a Kobayashi Maru type scenario.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't you just re-program the sim to cheat?

Kingairer · July 22nd, 2005, 16:36

Is this section now off limits from posting???

MikeD · July 22nd, 2005, 16:54

[ QUOTE ]
Is this section now off limits from posting???

[/ QUOTE ]

Shouldn't be. Chime in, my friend!

Kingairer · July 22nd, 2005, 17:33

It wont allow a new post/thread

Snow · July 25th, 2005, 10:55

> One of the situations they love to give in the sim is a Master Caution light about 5 knots prior to refusal

On the LearJet 45 all but the most critical alerts are disabled during critical phases of flight, i.e. take off roll and just before landing. So we don't have that problem

Flight_Watch · July 25th, 2005, 20:50

This might be a stupid question but how do you know that a tire has blown on such a large plane??

Can you feel 2 tires blow?
Are their TPM sensors in the wheels?
Is it dangerous to retract the landing gear with blown tires?

Doug Taylor · July 25th, 2005, 23:48

[ QUOTE ]

Can you feel 2 tires blow?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure you can. I can hear the nosegear roll over the individual runway centerline stripes and especially the recessed lighting so I think a blown tire would be pretty obvious.

[ QUOTE ]
Are their TPM sensors in the wheels?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in the super-stretch EFIS DC-9!

[ QUOTE ]
Is it dangerous to retract the landing gear with blown tires?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup!

Flight_Watch · July 25th, 2005, 23:59

Cool thanks for the answers Doug.

Just a side note: I was on the freeway today driving next to Semi-Truck. I look over and see that one of the rear tires on his trailer is complete blown to shreds. I try to motion to him that his tire is blown and he just ignores me. Funny to think that a 747 could feel two blown tires when this truck driver had no idea that his tire trailer tire was just about missing.

MultiComm · July 26th, 2005, 17:08

Amen to that one!!!

Doug Taylor · July 26th, 2005, 17:33

Plus, if you ask any Concorde pilot, blow outs can be fatal. I think there was also a story of a DC-8 or 707 in Africa that blew a tire which resulted in a fire in the wheel well after gear retraction that killed everyone on board. I can't remember the specifics, but it was something that we talked about in aviation safety in college.

seagull · July 26th, 2005, 20:57

The 747 has tire pressure monitors as well as brake temps, as do all the other widebodies I'm familiar with. I'm sure the 74-400, like the MD11 and several others, has an aural "tire failure" alert as well. Our aural portion in inhibited at the higher speeds until after 400'.

ananoman · August 19th, 2005, 01:12

If you are interested in this sort of thing, you should check out the 'Takeoff Safety Training Aid' which can be found at www.bluecoat.org. It was developed by the FAA a number of years ago after a series of accidents due to high speed aborts. It is relatively easy reading and contains a lot of good information. If you fly a jet, you really should read it.

I_Money · August 23rd, 2005, 15:17

I think the DC-8 (or 707) that put the gear up while it was on fire was in the Middle East somewhere.

MikeD - I thought if you had a tire blow over 45 knots you would just eject?? Isn't that your get out of jail free card? In the slighest distress safely eject, walk back to the flight line and try again?

FlyChicaga · August 25th, 2005, 02:33

Safely eject, and come out an inch shorter each time. If I remember correctly, you medical out with something like three ejections in your career due to the stress on your spine.

MikeD · August 25th, 2005, 03:11

[ QUOTE ]
Safely eject, and come out an inch shorter each time. If I remember correctly, you medical out with something like three ejections in your career due to the stress on your spine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes after one, depending.

July 22nd, 2005, 01:22	#26
GatorFC Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: da' Bayou Posts: 1,685	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 Damn sim instructors - always wanting to come up with a Kobayashi Maru type scenario.

July 22nd, 2005, 15:43	#27
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,062	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 [ QUOTE ] Damn sim instructors - always wanting to come up with a Kobayashi Maru type scenario. [/ QUOTE ] Can't you just re-program the sim to cheat?

July 22nd, 2005, 16:36	#28
Kingairer Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nomadic...World Wide Boobie Bungalow Bouncer Posts: 3,158	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 Is this section now off limits from posting???

July 22nd, 2005, 16:54	#29
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 [ QUOTE ] Is this section now off limits from posting??? [/ QUOTE ] Shouldn't be. Chime in, my friend!

July 22nd, 2005, 17:33	#30
Kingairer Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nomadic...World Wide Boobie Bungalow Bouncer Posts: 3,158	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 It wont allow a new post/thread

July 25th, 2005, 10:55	#31
Snow Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 869	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 > One of the situations they love to give in the sim is a Master Caution light about 5 knots prior to refusal On the LearJet 45 all but the most critical alerts are disabled during critical phases of flight, i.e. take off roll and just before landing. So we don't have that problem

July 25th, 2005, 20:50	#32
Flight_Watch Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 96	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 This might be a stupid question but how do you know that a tire has blown on such a large plane?? Can you feel 2 tires blow? Are their TPM sensors in the wheels? Is it dangerous to retract the landing gear with blown tires?

July 25th, 2005, 23:48	#33
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,396 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 [ QUOTE ] Can you feel 2 tires blow? [/ QUOTE ] I'm sure you can. I can hear the nosegear roll over the individual runway centerline stripes and especially the recessed lighting so I think a blown tire would be pretty obvious. [ QUOTE ] Are their TPM sensors in the wheels? [/ QUOTE ] Not in the super-stretch EFIS DC-9! [ QUOTE ] Is it dangerous to retract the landing gear with blown tires? [/ QUOTE ] Yup!

July 25th, 2005, 23:59	#34
Flight_Watch Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 96	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 Cool thanks for the answers Doug. Just a side note: I was on the freeway today driving next to Semi-Truck. I look over and see that one of the rear tires on his trailer is complete blown to shreds. I try to motion to him that his tire is blown and he just ignores me. Funny to think that a 747 could feel two blown tires when this truck driver had no idea that his tire trailer tire was just about missing.

July 26th, 2005, 17:08	#35
MultiComm Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 115	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 Amen to that one!!!

July 26th, 2005, 17:33	#36
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,396 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 Plus, if you ask any Concorde pilot, blow outs can be fatal. I think there was also a story of a DC-8 or 707 in Africa that blew a tire which resulted in a fire in the wheel well after gear retraction that killed everyone on board. I can't remember the specifics, but it was something that we talked about in aviation safety in college.

July 26th, 2005, 20:57	#37
seagull Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,043	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 The 747 has tire pressure monitors as well as brake temps, as do all the other widebodies I'm familiar with. I'm sure the 74-400, like the MD11 and several others, has an aural "tire failure" alert as well. Our aural portion in inhibited at the higher speeds until after 400'.

August 19th, 2005, 01:12	#38
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 If you are interested in this sort of thing, you should check out the 'Takeoff Safety Training Aid' which can be found at www.bluecoat.org. It was developed by the FAA a number of years ago after a series of accidents due to high speed aborts. It is relatively easy reading and contains a lot of good information. If you fly a jet, you really should read it.

August 23rd, 2005, 15:17	#39
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,639	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 I think the DC-8 (or 707) that put the gear up while it was on fire was in the Middle East somewhere. MikeD - I thought if you had a tire blow over 45 knots you would just eject?? Isn't that your get out of jail free card? In the slighest distress safely eject, walk back to the flight line and try again?

August 25th, 2005, 02:33	#40
FlyChicaga Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,743	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 Safely eject, and come out an inch shorter each time. If I remember correctly, you medical out with something like three ejections in your career due to the stress on your spine.

August 25th, 2005, 03:11	#41
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Tire Failure on Takeoff - 747 [ QUOTE ] Safely eject, and come out an inch shorter each time. If I remember correctly, you medical out with something like three ejections in your career due to the stress on your spine. [/ QUOTE ] Sometimes after one, depending.

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