Questionable Drinking

[FlyChicaga]

In light of the America West pilots trial:

You and your captain go out on a fairly long overnight, arriving early afternoon, and leaving early in the morning the next day. The rules say that you must stop drinking 12-hours before flight, not the FAA normal 8 (standard at many airlines). After a while at the hotel bar, you notice it's nearing the 12-hour time. So you switch to club soda, while the captain still partakes in some alcoholic beverages. Mentioning the 12-hour rule, the captain barks, "Screw that. The FAA says 8, so it's 8."

To avoid making the situation worse, you decide to turn in for the night, while your captain stays downstairs with a few people you met at the bar.

The next morning at 6:00am for the van, your captain is moving slowly and slightly irritable. Doesn't smell of alcohol at all that you can tell, only cheap hotel soap and deicing fluid. The flight attendant then asks you, "Did you guys go out last night or something?"

What do you do?

Disclaimer: This situation is hypothetical.

[MikeD]

I don't know how long he stayed out. So I'd figure he's having trouble waking up. Would keep a small eye on him, but if he's otherwise seeming fit to fly, press. I can't really read into a situation without some hard facts.

[ASpilot2be]

I wouldnt just keep an eye on the capt.

BTW: Happy Birthday
Alec

[MDPilot]

You stopped before 12 hr prior, left the scene, can't smell anything on the Capt now. I'd say MYOB, you don't have any knowledge of anything to confront him with.

[Sean_S]

Ask him to call in sick, if he isn’t willing do it for him. Tell scheduling he his hugging the toilet and asked that you call in for him, then tell him he can either stay at the hotel and rest per scheduling or argue about it in which case you will be forced to call back and tell them the truth. If he showed no signs I wouldn’t do anything but since you said he was moving slow and even the FA noticed I wouldn’t want to trust my life in his hands in the event of an emergency.

[Kingairer]

[ QUOTE ]
You stopped before 12 hr prior, left the scene, can't smell anything on the Capt now. I'd say MYOB, you don't have any knowledge of anything to confront him with.

[/ QUOTE ]
agree

[viper548]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You stopped before 12 hr prior, left the scene, can't smell anything on the Capt now. I'd say MYOB, you don't have any knowledge of anything to confront him with.

[/ QUOTE ]
agree

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree here too.

[supercell86]

Wake up!!! of course report him!!! This isnt flying single pilot VFR on a cessna 152....were talking transporting lots of pax, crew, and a huge airplane.....the world needs less risk takers, and more people who are ....OVER safe if you will.

[mtsu_av8er]

[supercell86]

are you out to get me or something? LOL gees man

[Kingairer]

I Am!

[CFIse]

Originally Posted by viper548

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You stopped before 12 hr prior, left the scene, can't smell anything on the Capt now. I'd say MYOB, you don't have any knowledge of anything to confront him with.

[/ QUOTE ]
agree

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree here too.

Me three.....

[difete]

Kingairer, is that really your picture?

[CapnJim]

Originally Posted by supercell86

Wake up!!! of course report him!!! This isnt flying single pilot VFR on a cessna 152....were talking transporting lots of pax, crew, and a huge airplane.....the world needs less risk takers, and more people who are ....OVER safe if you will.

Supercell, are you being sarcastic and I'm missing it? You don't smell alcohol, you don't have all the facts because youleft early. What are you going to report? Are you willing to jeopardize a guys career on a hunch? Bad mojo, my friend.
Airlines don't need oversafe pilots. Oversafe can be as dangerous as undersafe. Airlines need pilots who can make timely and well-prioritized decisions.

[zmiller4]

This isnt flying single pilot VFR on a cessna 152

You're right, there's two of you up there, and a big reason for that is to back each other up. Every captain I've flown with has briefed me before the trip that I should keep an eye on them and they'll keep an eye on me. There are plenty of times, after a 14-hr day and a reduced rest overnight, that one of you is a little groggy on the first flight in the morning. So given the lack of evidence that this guy actually did anything wrong and appears to be just tired and irritable (a common state for captains), I'd just keep quiet and watch them carefully.

Kingairer, is that really your picture?

If it is, he sure looks a lot like the Gulfstream FO I met in the bar on a Bahamas overnight last week.

[E_Dawg]

Originally Posted by zmiller4

If it is, he sure looks a lot like the Gulfstream FO I met in the bar on a Bahamas overnight last week.

Was he in uniform?

[zmiller4]

Was he in uniform?

Of course? How are tourist girls supposed to know you're a pilot if you aren't showing off the stripes?

He wasn't really in uniform, and was actually a very nice guy.

[B]

http://www.topix.net/content/cbs/352...49173967929859

This FO pushed it a little too far. Was pulled out of his seat and arrested. I wonder if the CA is in trouble for not reporting it?

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Originally Posted by CFIse

Me three.....

Ditto. It is rediculous how slow I move on some of the early wakes... Besides, 5 legs and 13 hours of duty, I would have been more competent starting out after drinkin a 6 pack.

[flyguy]

Its a tough call. For the most part I agree with those that say MYOB, but we need to consider, even though we can give him the bennefit of the doubt and assume he's legal to fly as per FARs, the airlines take their company policy very seriously. There is no doubt he'd be terminated if he drank into the 12 hour rule. I wouldn't want to end his career, but at the same time I have to look out for my own. The fact is he admitted that he had every intention of drinking past 12 hours. Even if I didn't see it, I know it happened. Is there any posibility that anyone overheard it? I might consider reporting him just to cover myself in case it becomes known that I knew and didn't say anything. I wouldn't want him to drag me down with him.

[NYer914]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

In light of the America West pilots trial:

You and your captain go out on a fairly long overnight, arriving early afternoon, and leaving early in the morning the next day. The rules say that you must stop drinking 12-hours before flight, not the FAA normal 8 (standard at many airlines). After a while at the hotel bar, you notice it's nearing the 12-hour time. So you switch to club soda, while the captain still partakes in some alcoholic beverages. Mentioning the 12-hour rule, the captain barks, "Screw that. The FAA says 8, so it's 8."

To avoid making the situation worse, you decide to turn in for the night, while your captain stays downstairs with a few people you met at the bar.

The next morning at 6:00am for the van, your captain is moving slowly and slightly irritable. Doesn't smell of alcohol at all that you can tell, only cheap hotel soap and deicing fluid. The flight attendant then asks you, "Did you guys go out last night or something?"

What do you do?

Disclaimer: This situation is hypothetical.

Sounds like my typical 4-day

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by CapnJim

Supercell, are you being sarcastic and I'm missing it? You don't smell alcohol, you don't have all the facts because youleft early. What are you going to report? Are you willing to jeopardize a guys career on a hunch? Bad mojo, my friend.
Airlines don't need oversafe pilots. Oversafe can be as dangerous as undersafe. Airlines need pilots who can make timely and well-prioritized decisions.

You better have damn good reason to try and snuff someone's career by reporting to him or her to the authorities. I'm all for following the regs and the whole "safety of flight" issue.......HOWEVER, we are way too extreme these days regarding what is being fit for flight, etc..... That being said, I do agree on getting the crew member to call in if I've got good reason to claim he's got alcohol on his/ her breath. But, it would be my LAST RESORT to call the authorities/ company on the person. ONLY if the person insisted in working while they were CLEARLY in violation of regulations would I consider calling company/ authorities.
All I can say regarding all you people who are quick to report your FELLOW CREWMEMBER......is......I seriously hope I am NEVER part of your crew. You have much to learn regarding a team concept. Safety is one thing........being a squeelling little bit@h is another entirely.

[CapnJim]

Thanks Cruise.
But hey, Mods! I had a pretty long and concice reply in here a wlike back, and now it's vanished. What gives?

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by CapnJim

Thanks Cruise.
But hey, Mods! I had a pretty long and concice reply in here a wlike back, and now it's vanished. What gives?

No idea. Nothing's in the deletion queue. When did you make it? I can check the mysql database when I get into Ontario.

[CapnJim]

Okie dokie. Thanks dough. I'm not sure the date, but it was at least a month or so ago. Somewhere between post #4 and #7, as little as that may narrow it down.