Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-"Doors"

mrivc211 · April 21st, 2005, 19:33

You just take off out of LAX and are on the departure to SAN. While cruising thru 8,000ft you hear: Ding Ding Ding "Doors"

You look at the MAP and a red light is on. Its says DOORS.
The forward cabin door actuator light is illuminated. The flight attendants jumpseat is also directly located next to the door. In fact her hand rests on the door while shes seated in her jumpseat.

What do you do?

jtrain609 · April 21st, 2005, 19:50

Well, if she's still there I'd tell her to move.

Don't know what the message means, but I'll take a crack at the door seal being compramised, meaning you should be flying at an alt that dosen't require pressurization. Can you get there without going above 12,500'? If not, turn back.

But the real problem is that we don't know what the error message means.

Doug Taylor · April 21st, 2005, 19:54

How's the differential pressure looking? Chances are, it's probably a microswitch.

Wait, is it fair game for me to play?

JEP · April 21st, 2005, 20:02

[ QUOTE ]
In fact her hand rests on the door while shes seated in her jumpseat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask her to make sure the handle is in a "locked" position and ask her to take her hand off of it.

My guess is she inadvertently moved the handle causing the light.

and no Doug, it's not fair!

pscraig · April 22nd, 2005, 01:38

Check the cabin altitude and make sure it is scheduling at a normal rate. Call ATC and level off, tell the FA not to touch the door and call for the QRH. Assuming it's a plug door (ERJ) as long as we have differential pressure it won't open.

When I call back to the cabin I'll ask her to look at the door alignment indicators.

Mr_Creepy · April 22nd, 2005, 07:12

You follow the procedure. You divert and land at the "nearest suitable airport." That means nearest airport with Maintenance. You don't screw around with cabin doors.

mrivc211 · April 22nd, 2005, 16:56

[ QUOTE ]
You follow the procedure. You divert and land at the "nearest suitable airport." That means nearest airport with Maintenance. You don't screw around with cabin doors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said anyone was screwing around John?

You said follow the procedure......how do you know the procedure is to land at the nearest suitable airport?

Landing at the nearest suitable airport would mean the door is actually out of alignment. Was that indicated in the scenario?

I think the reason why people are so hostile towards you John is because of the way you respond to things.

Mr_Creepy · April 22nd, 2005, 19:25

I didn't mean "screwing around" in the literal sense. I mean you don't take any chances with doors, because of the passengers.

There were some guys who "decided" that a Beech 1900 had a bad sensor and the door was fine. The door popped open an inch at 190 and they had a rapid decompression.

They made it down under 10k fine, everyone had a mask on, but there was the devil to pay at the carpet dance the next day.

[ QUOTE ]
You said follow the procedure......how do you know the procedure is to land at the nearest suitable airport?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the standard Bombardier (manufacturer's) procedure for the CL-65. It's also the standard manufacturer's procedure for every other pressurized aircraft I've flown , which includes King Airs, Conquest, Beech 1900 and Boeing 737. SkyWest has always appeared to me as a reasonable airline and I don't see any reason why they would deviate from the recommended or standard procedure. Please enlighten me if they have.

I have a Mesa EM120 emergency checklist here, although I never flew the aircraft. It says:

DOOR WARN: Do not touch door or door handle. Make a PA and require passengers to remain in seats with seatbelts fastened. Instruct FA to take a seat. Descend below 10,000 ft if possible and divert to nearest suitable airport. (somewhat paraphrased.)

I have made the assumption that this is a manufacturer's procedure since Mesa rarely deviated from such.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the reason why people are so hostile towards you John is because of the way you respond to things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah you're one to talk LOL. Although I've never disagreed with you before, since I read what you say - and not how you say it. Most of what you say is pretty sound.

Some people around here pick on how I say things. My friends read what I say, and do not nitpick on how I say it. Perhaps if you took the time to get to know me you might interpret it differently. Don't read in to what I say - please take it at face value. Or not. Whatever.

mrivc211 · April 22nd, 2005, 19:46

hey dude- if you didn't mean to say it in the sense it was perceived in, all you could have said was, "I didn't mean it that way". End of story. But from what I see from most peoples reactions in responding to your comments, you have a hard time with words

This new topic thread is meant to educate guys and girls on what one would do or something to think about, its not meant to be a place to lash the person posting the topic
BTW- A mesa QRH thats probably outdated by more than a decade is not procedure at SKYW. Although somewhat similar, our QRC/QRH is speficially approved by a specific FAA rep for our ops, being in this industry as long as you have, I'm sure you already knew that.

SteveC · April 22nd, 2005, 22:22

Mr_Creepy · April 22nd, 2005, 22:55

[ QUOTE ]

This new topic thread is meant to educate guys and girls on what one would do or something to think about, its not meant to be a place to lash the person posting the topic

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see anything in my post that lashed out at anyone.

All I said was don't screw around with door warnings. I have explained why. I hope you agree.

FlyChicaga · April 23rd, 2005, 00:57

Uh, so anyways. Back on topic. I'd run the appropriate QRH for the doors indication and follow the checklist. Most importantly, I'd notify the F/A to move to an open passenger seat or the aft F/A jumpseat, away from the door. Our F/As sit right next to the main cabin door as well. I'd also begin a descent to 10,000 feet, and begin planning for a suitable airport to divert to enroute.

As an aside, slightly on topic. Flying into Rochester, NY the other day, my captain mentioned a story about flying the ATR over the lake north of the city on departure, when the main cargo door actuator activated somehow, thereby opening the door and releasing passenger luggage into the lake.

Doug Taylor · April 23rd, 2005, 01:31

Shoot, I dunno, nearest suitable last time I checked was nearest suitable. With or without maintenance facilities.

We did a weather divert into an 'offline' airport a few weeks ago. Focus on getting the aircraft safely on the ground and let the 'powers that be' figure out the rest.

Mr_Creepy · April 23rd, 2005, 07:54

[ QUOTE ]
Shoot, I dunno, nearest suitable last time I checked was nearest suitable. With or without maintenance facilities.

We did a weather divert into an 'offline' airport a few weeks ago. Focus on getting the aircraft safely on the ground and let the 'powers that be' figure out the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point Doug. The "maintenance" part was always taught verbally in class

Looking4Lower · April 25th, 2005, 15:39

[ QUOTE ]
You said follow the procedure......how do you know the procedure is to land at the nearest suitable airport?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I just happened to have my Lear 60 checklist out when I was reading thru this, so I flipped open the cabin door light tab. Basically, if there is "evidence of door failure," then the procedure is to use the emergency depressurization system, descend and land as soon as practical.

If no evidence of door failure, bring the fasten seat belt sign ON and continue with the flight. In BOTH cases, its says (bold print) DO NOT APPROACH DOOR.

So, I agree with the others who will look at the cabin pressure differential and make that a big part of the decision. It also depends on what altitude you are planning on using for cruise. In the original scenario, it says "cruising through 8000." Does that mean "climbing thru" or "cruising at?" If you're staying that low because of a short flight, probably wouldn't worry about continuing as long as there was some differential. Climbing high? That might cause some concern for me.

A300Capt · May 3rd, 2005, 12:34

[ QUOTE ]
The flight attendants jumpseat is also directly located next to the door. In fact her hand rests on the door while shes seated in her jumpseat.

What do you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cinch up your seatbelt really tight, put on your O2 mask and lock the cockpit door. Then, without showing any fear or concern in your voice, tell your FA (whatever those are..) to open and then re-close the door so that it is seated correctly.

I'M KIDDING!!

flyover · May 15th, 2005, 12:54

[ QUOTE ]
It's also the standard manufacturer's procedure for every other pressurized aircraft I've flown , which includes King Airs, Conquest, Beech 1900 and Boeing 737.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta disagree with you there. Big difference between plug type doors and some of these other types. Getting a "door" light with no indication of pressurization problems is a non-event in a Boeing.

JDMcFly · May 15th, 2005, 13:52

"As an aside, slightly on topic. Flying into Rochester, NY the other day, my captain mentioned a story about flying the ATR over the lake north of the city on departure, when the main cargo door actuator activated somehow, thereby opening the door and releasing passenger luggage into the lake. "

lmao... well, not funny for the pax, but lol.

N8389P · May 15th, 2005, 23:29

I would take her upto FL250 and see what happens

sky7 · May 25th, 2005, 18:26

[ QUOTE ]
You look at the MAP and a red light is on. Its says DOORS.
The forward cabin door actuator light is illuminated.

[/ QUOTE ]

the "FORWARD ACTUATOR" light on the overhead just means the forward door hydraulic actuator line remains pressurized after closing.

the "FORWARD" light below it means the forward cabin door is not closed and latched. that one tends to get peoples attention a little more.

This "you're the capt" is faily cut and dry- at least at SkyWest. Correct answer still remains- QRH.

NJA_Capt · May 25th, 2005, 21:16

Our "Cabin Door Unlocked" light is only amber.
1) Select Manual pressurization
2) Cabin Altitude 10,000'
[you'll like this

]
3) Descend to FL410

MikeD · May 25th, 2005, 22:56

[ QUOTE ]
Our "Cabin Door Unlocked" light is only amber.
1) Select Manual pressurization
2) Cabin Altitude 10,000'
[you'll like this

]
3) Descend to FL410

[/ QUOTE ]

"Canopy Unlocked" is a light I hate to see when airborne.

mrivc211 · May 27th, 2005, 20:48

yo mike, you coming to vegas this year?

SteveC · May 27th, 2005, 21:43

[ QUOTE ]
yo mike, you coming to vegas this year?

[/ QUOTE ]

When are you deploying, MikeD?

MikeD · June 1st, 2005, 07:57

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yo mike, you coming to vegas this year?

[/ QUOTE ]

When are you deploying, MikeD?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully, I should be back stateside 3 days prior to JC Vegas, and should be able to make it. Am signed up and will make reservations regardless.

April 21st, 2005, 19:33	#1
mrivc211 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,023	Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" You just take off out of LAX and are on the departure to SAN. While cruising thru 8,000ft you hear: Ding Ding Ding "Doors" You look at the MAP and a red light is on. Its says DOORS. The forward cabin door actuator light is illuminated. The flight attendants jumpseat is also directly located next to the door. In fact her hand rests on the door while shes seated in her jumpseat. What do you do?

April 21st, 2005, 19:50	#2
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,195	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" Well, if she's still there I'd tell her to move. Don't know what the message means, but I'll take a crack at the door seal being compramised, meaning you should be flying at an alt that dosen't require pressurization. Can you get there without going above 12,500'? If not, turn back. But the real problem is that we don't know what the error message means.

April 21st, 2005, 19:54	#3
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,932 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" How's the differential pressure looking? Chances are, it's probably a microswitch. Wait, is it fair game for me to play?

April 21st, 2005, 20:02	#4
JEP Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN (KFCM) (KMSP) Posts: 10,628 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] In fact her hand rests on the door while shes seated in her jumpseat. [/ QUOTE ] Ask her to make sure the handle is in a "locked" position and ask her to take her hand off of it. My guess is she inadvertently moved the handle causing the light. and no Doug, it's not fair!

April 22nd, 2005, 01:38	#5
pscraig Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,021	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" Check the cabin altitude and make sure it is scheduling at a normal rate. Call ATC and level off, tell the FA not to touch the door and call for the QRH. Assuming it's a plug door (ERJ) as long as we have differential pressure it won't open. When I call back to the cabin I'll ask her to look at the door alignment indicators.

April 22nd, 2005, 07:12	#6
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,807	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" You follow the procedure. You divert and land at the "nearest suitable airport." That means nearest airport with Maintenance. You don't screw around with cabin doors.

April 22nd, 2005, 16:56	#7
mrivc211 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,023	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] You follow the procedure. You divert and land at the "nearest suitable airport." That means nearest airport with Maintenance. You don't screw around with cabin doors. [/ QUOTE ] Who said anyone was screwing around John? You said follow the procedure......how do you know the procedure is to land at the nearest suitable airport? Landing at the nearest suitable airport would mean the door is actually out of alignment. Was that indicated in the scenario? I think the reason why people are so hostile towards you John is because of the way you respond to things.

April 22nd, 2005, 19:25	#8
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,807	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" I didn't mean "screwing around" in the literal sense. I mean you don't take any chances with doors, because of the passengers. There were some guys who "decided" that a Beech 1900 had a bad sensor and the door was fine. The door popped open an inch at 190 and they had a rapid decompression. They made it down under 10k fine, everyone had a mask on, but there was the devil to pay at the carpet dance the next day. [ QUOTE ] You said follow the procedure......how do you know the procedure is to land at the nearest suitable airport? [/ QUOTE ] It's the standard Bombardier (manufacturer's) procedure for the CL-65. It's also the standard manufacturer's procedure for every other pressurized aircraft I've flown , which includes King Airs, Conquest, Beech 1900 and Boeing 737. SkyWest has always appeared to me as a reasonable airline and I don't see any reason why they would deviate from the recommended or standard procedure. Please enlighten me if they have. I have a Mesa EM120 emergency checklist here, although I never flew the aircraft. It says: DOOR WARN: Do not touch door or door handle. Make a PA and require passengers to remain in seats with seatbelts fastened. Instruct FA to take a seat. Descend below 10,000 ft if possible and divert to nearest suitable airport. (somewhat paraphrased.) I have made the assumption that this is a manufacturer's procedure since Mesa rarely deviated from such. [ QUOTE ] I think the reason why people are so hostile towards you John is because of the way you respond to things. [/ QUOTE ] Oh yeah you're one to talk LOL. Although I've never disagreed with you before, since I read what you say - and not how you say it. Most of what you say is pretty sound. Some people around here pick on how I say things. My friends read what I say, and do not nitpick on how I say it. Perhaps if you took the time to get to know me you might interpret it differently. Don't read in to what I say - please take it at face value. Or not. Whatever.

April 22nd, 2005, 19:46	#9
mrivc211 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,023	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" hey dude- if you didn't mean to say it in the sense it was perceived in, all you could have said was, "I didn't mean it that way". End of story. But from what I see from most peoples reactions in responding to your comments, you have a hard time with words This new topic thread is meant to educate guys and girls on what one would do or something to think about, its not meant to be a place to lash the person posting the topic BTW- A mesa QRH thats probably outdated by more than a decade is not procedure at SKYW. Although somewhat similar, our QRC/QRH is speficially approved by a specific FAA rep for our ops, being in this industry as long as you have, I'm sure you already knew that.

April 22nd, 2005, 22:22	#10
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,413	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\"

April 22nd, 2005, 22:55	#11
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,807	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] This new topic thread is meant to educate guys and girls on what one would do or something to think about, its not meant to be a place to lash the person posting the topic [/ QUOTE ] I don't see anything in my post that lashed out at anyone. All I said was don't screw around with door warnings. I have explained why. I hope you agree.

April 23rd, 2005, 00:57	#12
FlyChicaga Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,757	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" Uh, so anyways. Back on topic. I'd run the appropriate QRH for the doors indication and follow the checklist. Most importantly, I'd notify the F/A to move to an open passenger seat or the aft F/A jumpseat, away from the door. Our F/As sit right next to the main cabin door as well. I'd also begin a descent to 10,000 feet, and begin planning for a suitable airport to divert to enroute. As an aside, slightly on topic. Flying into Rochester, NY the other day, my captain mentioned a story about flying the ATR over the lake north of the city on departure, when the main cargo door actuator activated somehow, thereby opening the door and releasing passenger luggage into the lake.

April 23rd, 2005, 01:31	#13
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,932 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" Shoot, I dunno, nearest suitable last time I checked was nearest suitable. With or without maintenance facilities. We did a weather divert into an 'offline' airport a few weeks ago. Focus on getting the aircraft safely on the ground and let the 'powers that be' figure out the rest.

April 23rd, 2005, 07:54	#14
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,807	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] Shoot, I dunno, nearest suitable last time I checked was nearest suitable. With or without maintenance facilities. We did a weather divert into an 'offline' airport a few weeks ago. Focus on getting the aircraft safely on the ground and let the 'powers that be' figure out the rest. [/ QUOTE ] That's a good point Doug. The "maintenance" part was always taught verbally in class

April 25th, 2005, 15:39	#15
Looking4Lower Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On your TCAS Posts: 539	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] You said follow the procedure......how do you know the procedure is to land at the nearest suitable airport? [/ QUOTE ] Good point. I just happened to have my Lear 60 checklist out when I was reading thru this, so I flipped open the cabin door light tab. Basically, if there is "evidence of door failure," then the procedure is to use the emergency depressurization system, descend and land as soon as practical. If no evidence of door failure, bring the fasten seat belt sign ON and continue with the flight. In BOTH cases, its says (bold print) DO NOT APPROACH DOOR. So, I agree with the others who will look at the cabin pressure differential and make that a big part of the decision. It also depends on what altitude you are planning on using for cruise. In the original scenario, it says "cruising through 8000." Does that mean "climbing thru" or "cruising at?" If you're staying that low because of a short flight, probably wouldn't worry about continuing as long as there was some differential. Climbing high? That might cause some concern for me.

May 3rd, 2005, 12:34	#16
A300Capt Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 709	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] The flight attendants jumpseat is also directly located next to the door. In fact her hand rests on the door while shes seated in her jumpseat. What do you do? [/ QUOTE ] Cinch up your seatbelt really tight, put on your O2 mask and lock the cockpit door. Then, without showing any fear or concern in your voice, tell your FA (whatever those are..) to open and then re-close the door so that it is seated correctly. I'M KIDDING!!

May 15th, 2005, 12:54	#17
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] It's also the standard manufacturer's procedure for every other pressurized aircraft I've flown , which includes King Airs, Conquest, Beech 1900 and Boeing 737. [/ QUOTE ] Gotta disagree with you there. Big difference between plug type doors and some of these other types. Getting a "door" light with no indication of pressurization problems is a non-event in a Boeing.

May 15th, 2005, 13:52	#18
JDMcFly Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,664	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" "As an aside, slightly on topic. Flying into Rochester, NY the other day, my captain mentioned a story about flying the ATR over the lake north of the city on departure, when the main cargo door actuator activated somehow, thereby opening the door and releasing passenger luggage into the lake. " lmao... well, not funny for the pax, but lol.

May 15th, 2005, 23:29	#19
N8389P Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: KAPV AppleValley Posts: 122	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" I would take her upto FL250 and see what happens

May 25th, 2005, 18:26	#20
sky7 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: work DEN, live SEA Posts: 73	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] You look at the MAP and a red light is on. Its says DOORS. The forward cabin door actuator light is illuminated. [/ QUOTE ] the "FORWARD ACTUATOR" light on the overhead just means the forward door hydraulic actuator line remains pressurized after closing. the "FORWARD" light below it means the forward cabin door is not closed and latched. that one tends to get peoples attention a little more. This "you're the capt" is faily cut and dry- at least at SkyWest. Correct answer still remains- QRH.

May 25th, 2005, 21:16	#21
NJA_Capt Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,316	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" Our "Cabin Door Unlocked" light is only amber. 1) Select Manual pressurization 2) Cabin Altitude 10,000' [you'll like this ] 3) Descend to FL410

May 25th, 2005, 22:56	#22
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] Our "Cabin Door Unlocked" light is only amber. 1) Select Manual pressurization 2) Cabin Altitude 10,000' [you'll like this ] 3) Descend to FL410 [/ QUOTE ] "Canopy Unlocked" is a light I hate to see when airborne.

May 27th, 2005, 20:48	#23
mrivc211 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,023	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" yo mike, you coming to vegas this year?

May 27th, 2005, 21:43	#24
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,413	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] yo mike, you coming to vegas this year? [/ QUOTE ] When are you deploying, MikeD?

June 1st, 2005, 07:57	#25
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Ding Ding Ding (aural warning)-\"Doors\" [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] yo mike, you coming to vegas this year? [/ QUOTE ] When are you deploying, MikeD? [/ QUOTE ] Hopefully, I should be back stateside 3 days prior to JC Vegas, and should be able to make it. Am signed up and will make reservations regardless.

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