Passenger Priorities

[Bog]

It's summer. It's really hot. Might even be really humid, if you live in those parts. You're in the left seat of an RJ or TP, no APU. The cabin temp is about 105 and getting warmer. You're already behind schedule, and your passengers might miss their connecting flights. Some of those flights are international and only go once or twice per day.

Do you board, not worrying about the extreme heat which may be harmful to some of your passengers? Do you hold off boarding until someone can find some air to cool the cabin, knowing it's better for your passengers?

Part B, this is the last leg of your trip and you want to go home. It's going to be 15 minutes before you can get an air cart, you have a full aircraft, and a few of the folks are elderly. Now what?

[JohnGalt]

Well, I look to the very first person... me. I would not want to be in such a hot place. I think the customers would be happier waiting a few more minutes for a cool plane, even if it does mean waiting until the next day for their intl flights. Overheating can be a serious problem for some people. If that happens they might sue the airlines, and their is a chance that you might be let go for making a bad decision.
Of course, if you take a vote and ALL the people say it would be ok as long as they get their on time, then I think it is another story.

[RPM]

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I think the customers would be happier waiting a few more minutes for a cool plane, even if it does mean waiting until the next day for their intl flights.

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I dunno, I think if people had to wait until the next day they would be pretty freakin pissed!


Sounds like a no win situation, if you board people on the hot plane - their gonna complain, and the elderly/small children could possibly get heat stroke. If you delay the flight, their still gonna complain. Me..I can take the heat, I'm from the desert...but some people are just wusses [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Is there a company policy for a cabin temp. range?

If not, I wouldn't board until the plane was cooled down a bit...too much of a liability. I'd treat it as any other mx/delay, for the safety of the passengers..yadda, yadda.

[kellwolf]

I'm gonna go with "wait until we can get the plane cooled" on this one. Had this happen a lot in MCO when the a/c was busted on the jetway. They would shutdown the APU to conserve a tiny amount of fuel, and then they would board a little later than usual. 'Course this is a bit easier to do with a cattle call than assigned seating.

As far as the elderly people, odds are they will be pre-boarding, so I would DEFINATELY wait then. If the flight is delayed, I'd put it down to a "passenger boarding" issue.

[av8rmsu]

Try to get air to the plane...but board the plane at the last possible moment.

I've sat on some Saab 340s in Memphis in the middle of the summer. Ground air was wide open...guess what...still hot as can be. The F/A would pass out damp/cool napkins and water while we were still on the ground.

I would be cautious if elderly or infants were on board.

Be sure that there were no undo delays that would keep us on the ground longer.

Heat and humidity happens...especially where I live...deal with it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[kellwolf]

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Heat and humidity happens...especially where I live...deal with it.

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True, but you have to agree it isn't as bad as Florida. BTW, I really should drive down since I'm only about an hour north of ya now.

[av8rmsu]

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Heat and humidity happens...especially where I live...deal with it.

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True, but you have to agree it isn't as bad as Florida. BTW, I really should drive down since I'm only about an hour north of ya now.

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In all honesty...sitting in a plane on a ramp in Memphis in the middle of August is just downright terrible. Florida is hot...but I can at least open the door and get some air.

Come on down...we'll do some flying in the 150.

Kellwolf...check your pms.

[Bog]

Trust me you probably will never find an airline policy regarding this issue, hence my posting it in the "You're the Captain" section. Flying at a mainline carrier, this isn't seen too often because there are always air conditioning carts at the ready. Fly for a regional, where "extras" are cut, and this will be a regular thing.

Sitting at the keyboard and sitting in the left seat are two different things. About 4 weeks ago we had several passengers taken off of a single aircraft due to extreme heat. Last week I flew 7 legs with no APU and a minimum cabin temp of 95, once or twice seeing it reach 115. On at least one flight I had major concerns about an elderly passenger. Had something gone wrong, you can bet that all fingers would have pointed my way.

Remember, you're getting paid to endure the heat. The passengers paid money to go somewhere, not sweat off 20 pounds.

[FlyChicaga]

Start number 2. It even says in our FOM that "passenger comfort and safety regarding the cabin environment always takes priority over cost savings." So get some cool air in that plane some way, some how. Why not start an engine? Flying back to IAH a couple days ago on a B733 the APU was MELed, and they started 2 at the gate 10 minutes prior to departure when they pulled the ground air.

[kellwolf]

Some airlines (and airports) forbid starting engines at the gate. Most of the time at SWA, the ground crew was still doing stuff almost up until the door shut. Might be easier with the ERJ since the engines are on the tail, but starting #2 on the 737 causes a few problems since it's RIGHT next to the baggage doors.

[I_Money]

To be honest the way I look at it. If my grandparents were on that flight there is no way I would want them boarding
in the heat.

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I think the customers would be happier waiting a few more minutes for a cool plane, even if it does mean waiting until the next day for their intl flights.

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I dunno, I think if people had to wait until the next day they would be pretty freakin pissed!

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I would not say this is true. It is not that big of a deal, there are usually ways you can be re-rooted, with minimal delays. But to be honest it is a risk you run doing long haul flights with connections - do not be angry or surprised if it happens to you!

[Bog]

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To be honest the way I look at it. If my grandparents were on that flight there is no way I would want them boarding
in the heat.

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Excellent point. When I was a newbie in the B1900, my instructor offered sage advice before our very first flight: treat every trip in this (and any other airplane) as if your family was on board. Keeps things in perspective!

Starting an engine on the gate is an idea, if your company allows it. We cannot do that per our ops manual. On the CR2, it wouldn't help anyway. The CR7 and CR9 could benefit, but it's much easier at that point to run the airstart on the jetpack position. With no apu, you need that airstart anyway to get the engines spinning.

[Doug Taylor]

The airline I work for teaches a priority on the very first day of ground school. They press it into your brain so hard that you almost hear it in your sleep and it's subliminally piped into the training center restrooms:

But it makes sense:
1 Safety
2 Passenger Comfort
3 Public Relations
4 Schedule
5 Economy

Is is "safe" to board? maybe
Would it be "comfortable" to board nope

...End of story

[chrisesp]

Any pilots from Horizon on this forum, take note.....

I was on a Horizon air Q400 the day it was 105 degrees in Portland, all I wanted was some A/C, I was miserable [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]!!!!!

[farwellbooth]

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Any pilots from Horizon on this forum, take note.....

I was on a Horizon air Q400 the day it was 105 degrees in Portland, all I wanted was some A/C, I was miserable [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]!!!!!

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What day? It reached 80 today the 28th for the first time in September this year. My brother flies the 400 for Horizon. I'll tell him. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[av8trxx]

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Start number 2.

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Totally. That's what we do. Crank it up and do a high pressure flow to get the cabin cool. Of course, our bins open on the left and not the right. Dunno how that would work for some other regional aircraft, but if it's an option ya gotta do what ya gotta do, right? Kellwolf- On the 737 I do remember once having the #1 running at the gate on a turn as the APU took a crap and the ground power wouldn't work when we went to plug it in. Hence they couldn't shut down, but the cabin was perfectly cool.

[av8trxx]

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About 4 weeks ago we had several passengers taken off of a single aircraft due to extreme heat. Last week I flew 7 legs with no APU and a minimum cabin temp of 95, once or twice seeing it reach 115. On at least one flight I had major concerns about an elderly passenger.

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On that note, why didn't the Captain refuse the aircraft? That is a serious safety hazard for the pax. I have had two flights where a bleed was MEL'ed and we were going to PSP where it was over 100. My Capt told dispatch to get us another aircraft or we would defer the flight until they swapped us. So they did, and pretty quick too!

[Bog]

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On that note, why didn't the Captain refuse the aircraft? That is a serious safety hazard for the pax. I have had two flights where a bleed was MEL'ed and we were going to PSP where it was over 100. My Capt told dispatch to get us another aircraft or we would defer the flight until they swapped us. So they did, and pretty quick too!

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Yeah, see, that doesn't work at every airline.

[mtsu_av8er]

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On that note, why didn't the Captain refuse the aircraft? That is a serious safety hazard for the pax. I have had two flights where a bleed was MEL'ed and we were going to PSP where it was over 100. My Capt told dispatch to get us another aircraft or we would defer the flight until they swapped us. So they did, and pretty quick too!

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Yeah, see, that doesn't work at every airline.

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[av8trxx]

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Yeah, see, that doesn't work at every airline.

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What does it say in your Ops manual about deferral of an aircraft or flight? Is it just a matter of standing your ground? Or it's an easier path getting bent over again by the company? Around here I have noticed that several guys would rather stick to their guns if it's a matter of pax safety than take NO for an anwser. Because we have the right to defer until the problem is corrected, and our CPs back us up, they usually find a way to fix it. If it's a safety of flight issue, and it sounds like it was for a few frail elderly pax, then you guys probably could have pushed the issue and won out. At the very least for an engine start to get some a/c if they wouldn't swap you.

[Bog]

Our ops manual prohibits running an engine while boarding or deplaning. In the CRJs, it wouldn't make a difference anyway, as one engine does not move enough air to make a difference. Swapping aircraft isn't an option when there's nothing else to take.

Mayhaps at AE it's easy to do, but in other places it's not. The other night in IND, I spent 40 minutes arguing with a certain codeshare's ops people about deplaning my APU-less wonder before people started passing out. The basic response was that they didn't want to deplane because then they'd have to deal with the passengers. Great CS, eh? We thought so. They finally hooked up ground air, but it did very little.

[kellwolf]

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They finally hooked up ground air, but it did very little.

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Wait a minute. You had no APU, they KNEW you were going to be on the ground for more then 10 minutes, and they didn't hook the air up right off the bat? Dude, THAT is poor CS right there. I know in the 737 that air gets pretty cold. I've had FAs tell me to shut the air off in the summer in FL b/c it was TOO cold. Does the air not flow as well in the CRJ?

[Bog]

The problem is that many ground ops agents do not realize that CRJs and ERJs have hookups for ground air. My first request was to deplane when the EDC for ORD turned into a ground stop; I was simply blown off.

Then I asked for an air start because it will pump enough air to freeze the plane in no time; unfortunately the only one they had would not do the job.

Then I asked for ground air and had to spend 5+ minutes convincing them that the CRJ will in fact accept a ground air hookup. The ramper and his attitude came out with relentless "Where does it hook up? Where? Where?" bs, then he just stared at the door I'd opened for him to plug it in. Another 5-10 minutes before he could get the hose rigged, and it didn't exactly blow very cold. The cabin was already at 90. Needless to say, our pax were not thrilled.

[Doug Taylor]

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The ramper and his attitude came out with relentless "Where does it hook up? Where? Where?" bs, then he just stared at the door I'd opened for him to plug it in.

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Minimum wage, minimal effort is what I always say.

[FlyChicaga]

I'm learning to appreciate our ramp more every day. We usually have a GPU and air cart plugged in and running before the cabin door is even opened or the jetway up to the aircraft. Those are the first two things they do after chocks are in, so we can power down the APU and save some cash.