112 Stage Check

juxtapilot · October 15th, 2007, 03:37

I'll probably be up this week for the 112 stage check... I am curious, where are common destinations for the X/C portions? My instructor said it might be as far as MSP... So I am really excited to plan another long cross country that I won't be flying.

On another note, I can't wait to finally be done with turns around a point!!!

Micaoct · October 15th, 2007, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

I'll probably be up this week for the 112 stage check... I am curious, where are common destinations for the X/C portions? My instructor said it might be as far as MSP... So I am really excited to plan another long cross country that I won't be flying.

On another note, I can't wait to finally be done with turns around a point!!!

You'll never beat my 10+ X/Cs planned per week and zero actually flown. Some as far as Rapid City. "Ohhhh Visibility dropped to 9sm instead of the 10sm required for night, oh wait the ceilings are supposed to drop to 4000 too, yeah you can't fly." Best part is when night time actually comes vis goes to 10sm and ceilings up to 7000. Great! Another 330nm plan done and no flight. Yeah I have a flight planned for Tuesday...which probaly won't happen if this keeps up. I checked my logbook...haven't actually flown since 9/26.

As for the stage check I noticed St. Paul Downtown and International Falls are popular. I had some really weird weight requests when I did my stage check...minimum fuel...maximum "beverages" for the party in St. Paul.

BuickCFI · October 15th, 2007, 08:19

FAR, DTL, PKD..........

-stage pilot

juxtapilot · October 15th, 2007, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

FAR, DTL, PKD..........

-stage pilot

Yes please.

ChadW346 · October 15th, 2007, 12:32

Yeah, it depends on the stage pilot. In 102, I had STP on my 26, and INL for my 30; seem like the popular ones, as said earlier. I actually just did my 221, 20 last week, and my cross-country for that was to freakin FFM. And what made it even easier was that I had already been there, heh.

juxtapilot · October 20th, 2007, 16:52

Was up for 1.7 today "reviewing" for the Stage... Yet it remains incomplete. I seriously can't figure out why we almost NEVER have enough time to complete a lesson. It's driving me crazy... I have had to incomplete 4 out of 14 lessons. It usually is taking 3 hours to complete a single lesson. This stuff is seriously bugging me.

And it's costing me a lot more money than I was expecting.

(But that is to be expected I guess.)

A friend of mine had his Stage today, and said his pilot had him plan to St. Paul... I can't wait.

TXaviator · October 20th, 2007, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

Was up for 1.7 today "reviewing" for the Stage... Yet it remains incomplete. I seriously can't figure out why we almost NEVER have enough time to complete a lesson. It's driving me crazy... I have had to incomplete 4 out of 14 lessons. It usually is taking 3 hours to complete a single lesson. This stuff is seriously bugging me.

And it's costing me a lot more money than I was expecting.

(But that is to be expected I guess.)

A friend of mine had his Stage today, and said his pilot had him plan to St. Paul... I can't wait.

well the only one that can answer that is you.

what IS taking so long? taking forever fumbling around for checklists? (commit them to memory) taking forever to setup for maneuvers? (again, memory.)

is it a preparedness issue or a performance issue?

AngelFuree · October 20th, 2007, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXaviator

taking forever fumbling around for checklists? (commit them to memory) taking forever to setup for maneuvers? (again, memory.)

I think we were all guilty of this at one point or another. Probably the case...not ripping on it, just an observation as I once was a student too. Any truth to it, Juxtapilot?

TXaviator · October 20th, 2007, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

I think we were all guilty of this at one point or another. Probably the case...not ripping on it, just an observation as I once was a student too. Any truth to it, Juxtapilot?

yeah it wasnt a rip at all. im currently guilty with 325. totally burned out right now and frustrated with continual SNAFU. my effort level is about zero, and im aware of it.

juxtapilot · October 20th, 2007, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXaviator

well the only one that can answer that is you.

what IS taking so long? taking forever fumbling around for checklists? (commit them to memory) taking forever to setup for maneuvers? (again, memory.)

is it a preparedness issue or a performance issue?

I hope it's not a performance issue. I guess I could say that the first lesson or two were a little slow, because I was learning about GPS and gadgets I had NEVER seen in my life... But that phase is over... Now I'm not really sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

I think we were all guilty of this at one point or another. Probably the case...not ripping on it, just an observation as I once was a student too. Any truth to it, Juxtapilot?

Hmmm, I know what you mean, but with the flows, I don't think that's really been affecting me. Checklists and set-ups have been pretty simular to flying at home, so it hasn't been too difficult.

Today it took us around 10-15 minutes to start the engine and get to runway 17R then another 25 minutes to get the the practice area. I think it takes too long to get going once we are in the practice area. Then after the manuver we talk about it for a minute or two then do a different manuver. Personally I would like to do (as an example) Do power off stalls, recover, do a clearing turn, go into power on stall, recover and go into slow flight... then drop down and do s-turns. I guess the time in between adds up, but honestly I don't know whats up. I probably will do an observation flight tomorrow to see what they do differently. The last time I went it was on an early 102 flight... that didn't help too much.

I guess I have to look over the flights and try to figure out whats up, because I've got to be doing something wrong or weird...

Thanks Guys!

juxtapilot · October 20th, 2007, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXaviator

yeah it wasnt a rip at all. im currently guilty with 325. totally burned out right now and frustrated with continual SNAFU. my effort level is about zero, and im aware of it.

I read your post, and had light bulbs and alarms and sirens all going off in my head... I am so hurried to get done I probably haven't worked at the manuvers well enough. It's like I get half way into a steep turn and decide "bah I don't feel like doing a steep turn anymore." Maybe my performance is a factor, low effort could be directly affecting how well I fly.

TXaviator · October 20th, 2007, 20:12

10-15 mins to startup and get to the hold short sounds excessive.... only thing to hold up there (that i can readily think of) is checklist and flow use.

25 mins to the practice area, cant really change that.

in my opinion, if your instructor is wanting to discuss things IN DETAIL after each maneuver, that might not be the best approach. what most instructors ive seen do is try to make brief suggestions in the plane, then discuss in more detail back on the ground.

BuickCFI · October 20th, 2007, 23:57

Quote:

10-15 mins to startup and get to the hold short sounds excessive.... only thing to hold up there (that i can readily think of) is checklist and flow use.

actually if you are quick enough ADHARS can slow you up about 30 seconds.....

juxtapilot · October 21st, 2007, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

actually if you are quick enough ADHARS can slow you up about 30 seconds.....

I wish it was ADHARS that was holding me up...

It would have been nice to have flown glass. Not that I hate the 6 pack. Glass would have been something new and fun!

BuickCFI · October 21st, 2007, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

I wish it was ADHARS that was holding me up...

It would have been nice to have flown glass. Not that I hate the 6 pack. Glass would have been something new and fun!

actually the glass slows down a lot of people and in 112 the students i have flown with it only hurt them

TXaviator · October 21st, 2007, 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

actually the glass slows down a lot of people and in 112 the students i have flown with it only hurt them

in IFR flight, i find to feel a bit more confident in my situational awareness with the glass, simply because it really does give you a good visual picture of where you are and your relationship to certain points in space.

as far as smoothness of flight, i find the analog representation of instruments to be a little more visually pleasing, as it is easier to subconsciously spot and interpret trends and movements.

pros and cons to both, definitely.

juxtapilot · October 21st, 2007, 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

actually the glass slows down a lot of people and in 112 the students i have flown with it only hurt them

Yeah I can see how it could put us at a disadvantage... I guess I was just hoping to have some newer experiences. Everything's been kind of low energy it seems. I think that's my fault though. Next week I will just kick 112's butt and rock though!

TXaviator · October 21st, 2007, 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

Yeah I can see how it could put us at a disadvantage... I guess I was just hoping to have some newer experiences. Everything's been kind of low energy it seems. I think that's my fault though. Next week I will just kick 112's butt and rock though!

getting motivated really does help. not that you can just "decide" to get motivated, but definitely when im in the right mindset, i get a lot more accomplished.

AngelFuree · October 21st, 2007, 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXaviator

as far as smoothness of flight, i find the analog representation of instruments to be a little more visually pleasing, as it is easier to subconsciously spot and interpret trends and movements.

I think it's a thing of getting used to. I like the glass because it's waaay wayyy too easy to fly IFR w/ it. Having numbers makes your flying a lot more accurate/smoother when you can hold yourself to 3000ft vs. 2999.99 (obviously I'm exaggerating, but you get the idea). It just takes a few hours of getting used to and eventually just clicks. I can comfortably fly both. The ground track line (white dashed line on HSI) is a nice added feature though.

BuickCFI · October 21st, 2007, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

I think it's a thing of getting used to. I like the glass because it's waaay wayyy too easy to fly IFR w/ it. Having numbers makes your flying a lot more accurate/smoother when you can hold yourself to 3000ft vs. 2999.99 (obviously I'm exaggerating, but you get the idea). It just takes a few hours of getting used to and eventually just clicks. I can comfortably fly both. The ground track line (white dashed line on HSI) is a nice added feature though.

yeah but it pisses me off a lot when i take away all moving maps and my students can no longer fly they freaking airplane by reference to instruments. they have ZERO situational awareness because they did 222 in the glass.

i had one student the other day who tried to fly with 4 moving maps up! on the HSI, MFD, and both GPS, all the same damn thing. i took them all away and made him shoot an approach with RMI only and the result was ugly

the glass is a great tool, but i wish more people would take way the maps more often so that you can build situational awareness of where you are w/o it. not every airplane has a moving map so it doesn't make sense to teach only that way

i am also one of few people that loves NDB's. i absolutely hated them in 222 since i unsat my 46 on them but now that i truly understand it, there is nothing better for keeping your own proficiency up than going out and shooting and ndb in actual or with a safety pilot. i figure if i can do that and maintain my course no problem than the ILS is cake if i need to use it someday to get in

/end rant

TheShocker · October 21st, 2007, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

yeah but it pisses me off a lot when i take away all moving maps and my students can no longer fly they freaking airplane by reference to instruments. they have ZERO situational awareness because they did 222 in the glass.

i had one student the other day who tried to fly with 4 moving maps up! on the HSI, MFD, and both GPS, all the same damn thing. i took them all away and made him shoot an approach with RMI only and the result was ugly

the glass is a great tool, but i wish more people would take way the maps more often so that you can build situational awareness of where you are w/o it. not every airplane has a moving map so it doesn't make sense to teach only that way

i am also one of few people that loves NDB's. i absolutely hated them in 222 since i unsat my 46 on them but now that i truly understand it, there is nothing better for keeping your own proficiency up than going out and shooting and ndb in actual or with a safety pilot. i figure if i can do that and maintain my course no problem than the ILS is cake if i need to use it someday to get in

/end rant

Getting to the IFR portion of 325 is fun right now, because I did 222 in the glass. I haven't touched a glass seminole yet, and not really looking forward to "Ooooh, OMG! Its a glass semenhole, I want to fly it." I struggled with NDB's in 221 but it was easier in 222 for me to shoot a "simulated" NDB approaches with the RMI in terms of situational awareness. Much better than relying on a fix card ADF.

AngelFuree · October 21st, 2007, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

yeah but it pisses me off a lot when i take away all moving maps and my students can no longer fly they freaking airplane by reference to instruments. they have ZERO situational awareness because they did 222 in the glass.

i had one student the other day who tried to fly with 4 moving maps up! on the HSI, MFD, and both GPS, all the same damn thing. i took them all away and made him shoot an approach with RMI only and the result was ugly

the glass is a great tool, but i wish more people would take way the maps more often so that you can build situational awareness of where you are w/o it. not every airplane has a moving map so it doesn't make sense to teach only that way

i am also one of few people that loves NDB's. i absolutely hated them in 222 since i unsat my 46 on them but now that i truly understand it, there is nothing better for keeping your own proficiency up than going out and shooting and ndb in actual or with a safety pilot. i figure if i can do that and maintain my course no problem than the ILS is cake if i need to use it someday to get in

/end rant

LOL. I was so happy when my student was switched to the regular Warrior for the second block of 222. (Air China students are required to do NDB approaches in the second block). You better believe the student struggled going back to more "old-fashioned" fashion flying. I always took away the moving map during all of the flying, though I did teach him how to make use of all his available resources with the GPS. You should still TEACH how to use the GPS, just not to rely on it. Basic situational awareness skills should be developed first.

To me it's extremely important to build a picture of where you are without needing a map. I really don't like it when people rely on moving maps too much for situational awareness.

The reason I DO like the Glass Warrior is more because there is the ground track line on the HSI which can be lined up with the CDI making you look like a pro.

Regardless, I can fly both ways without a problem, but it's nice to have something reduce the workload.

I'm old fashioned in liking to see the skills in a six pack, but am definitely not against something that reduces the workload.

BuickCFI · October 21st, 2007, 22:35

Quote:

I'm old fashioned in liking to see the skills in a six pack, but am definitely not against something that reduces the workload.

me neither, but like i said, it annoys the heck out of me when there is no situational awareness when in all intents and purposes the student is an instrumented rated commercial pilot.

i wish we still had Bendix stacks for instrument training, that requires you to learn situational awareness, once that is mastered then move onto something that helps reduce workload like the glass does

JaceTheAce · October 22nd, 2007, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

yeah but it pisses me off a lot when i take away all moving maps and my students can no longer fly they freaking airplane by reference to instruments. they have ZERO situational awareness because they did 222 in the glass.

i had one student the other day who tried to fly with 4 moving maps up! on the HSI, MFD, and both GPS, all the same damn thing. i took them all away and made him shoot an approach with RMI only and the result was ugly

the glass is a great tool, but i wish more people would take way the maps more often so that you can build situational awareness of where you are w/o it. not every airplane has a moving map so it doesn't make sense to teach only that way

i am also one of few people that loves NDB's. i absolutely hated them in 222 since i unsat my 46 on them but now that i truly understand it, there is nothing better for keeping your own proficiency up than going out and shooting and ndb in actual or with a safety pilot. i figure if i can do that and maintain my course no problem than the ILS is cake if i need to use it someday to get in

/end rant

I am very glad I did all my flight training in a 6-pack. "Oh but all the airlines use glass" ...typical song and dance being said around Odegard Hall... not so... the Dash 8 I'm getting ready to fly for Piedmont is no way near glass. The only thing close is the AI and HSI on some of the DHC-8-311's are LCD displays, but it's still a 6-pack. The darn plane barely has an autopilot... I was the last set of people who took 222 who did it in the steam gauge Warriors and I'm so glad I did.

JaceTheAce · October 22nd, 2007, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

i am also one of few people that loves NDB's. i absolutely hated them in 222 since i unsat my 46 on them but now that i truly understand it, there is nothing better for keeping your own proficiency up than going out and shooting and ndb in actual or with a safety pilot. i figure if i can do that and maintain my course no problem than the ILS is cake if i need to use it someday to get in

/end rant

I love NDB approaches. As simple of a nav aid they are, it's a challenge to use them...but a fun challenge.

October 15th, 2007, 03:37	#1
juxtapilot Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland Posts: 849	112 Stage Check I'll probably be up this week for the 112 stage check... I am curious, where are common destinations for the X/C portions? My instructor said it might be as far as MSP... So I am really excited to plan another long cross country that I won't be flying. On another note, I can't wait to finally be done with turns around a point!!!

October 15th, 2007, 08:19	#3
BuickCFI Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South of the Border Posts: 1,911	Re: 112 Stage Check FAR, DTL, PKD.......... -stage pilot __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI -Why is it when two planes almost hit each other it is called a near miss? Shouldn't it be called a near hit?

October 15th, 2007, 12:32	#5
ChadW346 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: KGFK Posts: 208	Re: 112 Stage Check Yeah, it depends on the stage pilot. In 102, I had STP on my 26, and INL for my 30; seem like the popular ones, as said earlier. I actually just did my 221, 20 last week, and my cross-country for that was to freakin FFM. And what made it even easier was that I had already been there, heh.

October 20th, 2007, 16:52	#6
juxtapilot Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland Posts: 849	Re: 112 Stage Check Was up for 1.7 today "reviewing" for the Stage... Yet it remains incomplete. I seriously can't figure out why we almost NEVER have enough time to complete a lesson. It's driving me crazy... I have had to incomplete 4 out of 14 lessons. It usually is taking 3 hours to complete a single lesson. This stuff is seriously bugging me. And it's costing me a lot more money than I was expecting. (But that is to be expected I guess.) A friend of mine had his Stage today, and said his pilot had him plan to St. Paul... I can't wait.

October 20th, 2007, 20:12	#12
TXaviator Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: in a backpack. Posts: 2,328	Re: 112 Stage Check 10-15 mins to startup and get to the hold short sounds excessive.... only thing to hold up there (that i can readily think of) is checklist and flow use. 25 mins to the practice area, cant really change that. in my opinion, if your instructor is wanting to discuss things IN DETAIL after each maneuver, that might not be the best approach. what most instructors ive seen do is try to make brief suggestions in the plane, then discuss in more detail back on the ground. __________________ CPL AMEL-I 206 TT / 25 ME ...and a YOB. 1st Place* - Sportsman - Doug Yost Aerobatic Contest 2nd Place - Sportsman - Illinois State Open Best 1st Time Sportsman - Midwest Aerobatic Challenge