Your winter driving lesson

[TheShocker]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

I think discriminate may be too strong of a word, but I get what you are saying.

This industry is picky, why can't I get hired at UPS, I have time in type (DC8 and a type rating) of one of their aircraft. They have their "rules". If I want to play, I play by those rules.


Saying someone has a bias towards good decision making is a little disengenuous (sp?). Choosing a Purdue grad over an FBO trained pilot is a better analogy.

Going with your Purdue v. FBO trained pilot analogy, a lot of people here at UND are under the impression that because they go to UND, they automatically have an upper edge over an applicant with similar qualifications. So, is it safe to say such biases exist in the industry? Its the same thing as judging someone based on where they are from. If the industry does it, bad!!!

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by TheShocker

Going with your Purdue v. FBO trained pilot analogy, a lot of people here at UND are under the impression that because they go to UND, they automatically have an upper edge over an applicant with similar qualifications. So, is it safe to say such biases exist in the industry? Its the same thing as judging someone based on where they are from. If the industry does it, bad!!!

That's what UND wants you to think. There are a lot of hiring people who dislike UND and other collegiate flight programs for this reason! They instill the notion that "if you go to XYZ Expensive Flight School, you will be a better pilot than the rest!"

UND has a great training program, but it never ever means that UND Pilot is better than FBO Pilot, or vice versa.

[TheShocker]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

That's what UND wants you to think. There are a lot of hiring people who dislike UND and other collegiate flight programs for this reason! They instill the notion that "if you go to XYZ Expensive Flight School, you will be a better pilot than the rest!"

UND has a great training program, but it never ever means that UND Pilot is better than FBO Pilot, or vice versa.

A charge of false advertising maybe? Over 90% of the aviation students here truly think they are the #### because they are graduating from UND. Sad!!!!

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by TheShocker

A charge of false advertising maybe? Over 90% of the aviation students here truly think they are the #### because they are graduating from UND. Sad!!!!

I think people need to realize that it's in their own personal accomplishments and skills that make them marketable.

<----how do you like my new avatar?

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by TheShocker

Going with your Purdue v. FBO trained pilot analogy, a lot of people here at UND are under the impression that because they go to UND, they automatically have an upper edge over an applicant with similar qualifications. So, is it safe to say such biases exist in the industry? Its the same thing as judging someone based on where they are from. If the industry does it, bad!!!

I don't think it is UND putting that idea in people's heads, I think it is those peoples egos getting the better of them.

Places that don't like UND or any other flight school like UND usually have a good reason, snotty pilots from those schools, bad attitudes etc. I have never heard of someone saying they didn't like a flight school pilot because of ability, it was always attitude, which, stay with me now, is the point.

A lot of good pilots have come before you guys from UND and paved a road of good impressions, and some have done some damage with bad attitudes, which path do ya'll wanna take?

[ZUKO]

Doncha know that UND pilots are sooo much better then anyone who trained outside of UND. I supppose you haven't heard about the guy who got hired with northwest express with 280 hours. I want to be just like him!!!! It wasnt the CRJ prep course that lowered the mins for him it was UNDs great reputation in the industry!!! They hire just on reputation!!!

Who cares we have to take a week to two weeks off of flying every month because the snow. We have UNDs reputation! I suppose you just werent proactive enough and thats why you are behind template. It wasnt the constant days of 3000 overcast.

UND is worth taking at least twice as much time to get the same education elsewhere because you were a UND pilot which is more impressive then just being FAA certified.

My brother knows a guy who is hooked up with horizon and he makes 150k/yr only after like 6 years. (Someone actually told me this in my ground school class.)

[airplanerik]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Yeah you missed this in driver's ed. Didn't you know? You're supposed to run ALL stop signs.

I don't think you got the part that stop signs within parking lots are optional. It is private property and has no jurisdiction with traffic laws. You can, however, be charged with trespassing if you run their nice little personally installed stop sign...that is, if they catch you.

I talked to the cops about this once, and even though parking lots are technically "private property" they are accessible to the public and are therefore subject to any traffic laws and you can be cited. I don't know if stop signs are ever optional.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by airplanerik

I talked to the cops about this once, and even though parking lots are technically "private property" they are accessible to the public and are therefore subject to any traffic laws and you can be cited. I don't know if stop signs are ever optional.

That's actually exactly what I did. I asked a cop about that when I was in court in CA for a traffic violation (illegal u-turn between the hours of 4pm and 7pm...one of those tricky signs where u-turn would otherwise be fine outside those hours...I got let off the hook with traffic school) and he said all they have to do is slap me with a trespassing charge.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Yeah you missed this in driver's ed. Didn't you know? You're supposed to run ALL stop signs.

I don't think you got the part that stop signs within parking lots are optional. It is private property and has no jurisdiction with traffic laws. You can, however, be charged with trespassing if you run their nice little personally installed stop sign...that is, if they catch you.

I find it hard to believe that an insurance company would see it the same way should there be an accident.

Originally Posted by airplanerik

I talked to the cops about this once, and even though parking lots are technically "private property" they are accessible to the public and are therefore subject to any traffic laws and you can be cited. I don't know if stop signs are ever optional.

I've heard something like this too.

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

That's actually exactly what I did. I asked a cop about that when I was in court in CA for a traffic violation (illegal u-turn between the hours of 4pm and 7pm...one of those tricky signs where u-turn would otherwise be fine outside those hours...I got let off the hook with traffic school) and he said all they have to do is slap me with a trespassing charge.

Yep, you cannot be charged with failure to stop at a stop sign in a parking lot. The trespassing charge yes, failure to stop, no. Unless things have changed.

[airplanerik]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

That's actually exactly what I did. I asked a cop about that when I was in court in CA for a traffic violation (illegal u-turn between the hours of 4pm and 7pm...one of those tricky signs where u-turn would otherwise be fine outside those hours...I got let off the hook with traffic school) and he said all they have to do is slap me with a trespassing charge.

I dunno, maybe it is different in CA. But this is what the ND cop said...

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

I think people need to realize that it's in their own personal accomplishments and skills that make them marketable.

Don’t forget your (general your) attitude speaks volumes.

Also, it doesn’t hurt getting your foot in the door coming from a well known place. It’s up to you (general you) to do the rest.

Being humble is always good

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

Yep, you cannot be charged with failure to stop at a stop sign in a parking lot. The trespassing charge yes, failure to stop, no. Unless things have changed.

Then why even have these stop signs? I’m not going to be the only one that doesn’t stop at ‘em.

Good thing you didn’t get into an accident then, because I find it hard to believe that the insurance companies would see it the same way. I’m sure that would be a blast to explain… “but, but, but… I don’t have to stop at these stop signs…”

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Then why even have these stop signs? I’m not going to be the only one that doesn’t stop at ‘em.

Good thing you didn’t get into an accident then, because I find it hard to believe that the insurance companies would see it the same way. I’m sure that would be a blast to explain… “but, but, but… I don’t have to stop at these stop signs…”

Insurance company can think whatever they want, so that would be the reason why to make an effort to stop at those stopsigns.

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Then why even have these stop signs? I’m not going to be the only one that doesn’t stop at ‘em.

Good thing you didn’t get into an accident then, because I find it hard to believe that the insurance companies would see it the same way. I’m sure that would be a blast to explain… “but, but, but… I don’t have to stop at these stop signs…”

I don't run them, I'm just pointing out that you can't get in trouble for failure to stop at a stop sign in a parking lot.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Don’t forget your (general your) attitude speaks volumes.

Also, it doesn’t hurt getting your foot in the door coming from a well known place. It’s up to you (general you) to do the rest.

Being humble is always good

Attitude too. Which is why I have a perceived excellent attitude on the UND subforums

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

I don't run them, I'm just pointing out that you can't get in trouble for failure to stop at a stop sign in a parking lot.

Play with fire if you wish.

If I remember correctly, I don't think that all the stop signs in the video were in a parking lot though.

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

If I remember correctly, I don't think that all the stop signs in the video were in a parking lot though.

They were.

[Doug Taylor]

A couple pointers:

If you're DOING something doofus, put the camcorder away.

If you've DONE something stupid, don't talk about it on Myspace or facebook.

Generally I don't honor thread deletions because I'd spend all day doing secretarial work for stuff that's already indexed at google nightly so I just took out the reference.

[Screaming_Emu]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Also, there ARE NO PEDESTRIANS in North Dakota.

Not true, I went to school there and didn't have a car for any of the 4.5 years I was there, lived off campus for about half of it.

You guys saying "but I'm good enough to break the rules" is the exact same attitude of somebody who would continue an approach past minimums thinking "I know what I'm doing, we'll land just fine". More times than not it will work out, but eventually you wont be so lucky. And we'll be here to tell you "told you so...get a lawyer"

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

Not true, I went to school there and didn't have a car for any of the 4.5 years I was there, lived off campus for about half of it.

You guys saying "but I'm good enough to break the rules" is the exact same attitude of somebody who would continue an approach past minimums thinking "I know what I'm doing, we'll land just fine". More times than not it will work out, but eventually you wont be so lucky. And we'll be here to tell you "told you so...get a lawyer"

There are pedestrians ON CAMPUS, but no where else. ND is mostly rural so people are gonna be either driving their truck or tractor, not walking down Rural Route 193 East.

And I doubt UAL747 would ever go below approach minimums - that's a whole different ball park that's playing with death.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

There are pedestrians ON CAMPUS, but no where else. ND is mostly rural so people are gonna be either driving their truck or tractor, not walking down Rural Route 193 East.

And I doubt UAL747 would ever go below approach minimums - that's a whole different ball park.

Not to keep beating this dead horse, I think the point(s) have been made. But the bolded part is EXACTLY what a prospective employer will be thinking if it was between Tom and someone else who didn't publicize this kind of "behavior".

How is someone to know where Tom draws the line at breaking rules??

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

How is someone to know where Tom draws the line at breaking rules??

because some people have the ability to think critically and realize the distinction between the two?

sliding a car in snow = fun, only dangerous to self and own-property, and really not that dangerous anyway

going below minimums in hard IMC = possible death ticket.


i should hope an interviewer can get at least a basic picture of the applicant's overall competency and decision making abilities to distinguish between the guy who likes to have some fun, and the death trap cowboy / n00b

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

because some people have the ability to think critically and realize the distinction between the two?

sliding a car in snow = fun, only dangerous to self and own-property, and really not that dangerous anyway

This is where I disagree with you, it is a danger to anyone who might happen around a corner, someone elses car he might hit, etc etc.

going below minimums in hard IMC = possible death ticket.



i should hope an interviewer can get at least a basic picture of the applicant's overall competency and decision making abilities to distinguish between the guy who likes to have some fun, and the death trap cowboy / n00b

You can dress it up anyway you like, folks have "personalities" that tend towards different kinds of behaviour, Tom's seems to be one of breaking the rules if he doesn't think they apply to him at his skill level. So after he gets a couple of thousand hours in an airplane and has done some approaches to "hard IMC mins" is he going to now think his skill is good enough that those mins don't apply to him? If I was a betting man, I would bet he would, not someone I want flying my property, family, etc around.


I have a bit of a vested and thus bias interest in this, because the area he was dicking around in is where my two nephews live, one is only 11 and has a physical handicap, last thing he needs is to be hit by some dumbass joyriding.

[darrenf]

We have a nominee for most pwned of 2007.