Your winter driving lesson

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Wow! Sporty! (LOL, remember they said that it was "sporty" in their ads back then? )

There was a "world car" model for a couple years too. That was the one with the flags going in a circle instead of a straight line on my car under the "cutlass cieara" badge. I can't imagin anyone one in a few of these countries wanting to buy this car:

[darrenf]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

I don't think I'd want to work for a place that refused to hire me because of some random video that I may or may not have made. EVERY single thing posted so far both on here and youtube could be by Joe Butthead in Germany.

No where in this entire video am I acting irresponsibly. I'm not in traffic and the speeds are kept low on completely open roads with plenty of visibility. The camera is zoomed all the way out by the way. I'm not going 50mph like you might think. The ONLY possible negetive outcome that could have happend the entire time is spinning out and MAYBE tapping a snow bank or curb with the tires. If I were going faster, yeah some bad things could happen, but I'm not.

It's alright, I put this video in a public forum, so I expect some comments questioning the actions in the video.

Well, I don't know who you want to work for, but I can tell you as an employer, seeing the video and then hearing you defend it and state you were not acting irresponsibly would keep me from hiring you. Of course, you might not care about my opinion, but there might be a lurker on this site that could be someone in a position of power over you in the future, and they might just hold you responsible for it. just sayin.

[TheShocker]

Originally Posted by darrenf

Well, I don't know who you want to work for, but I can tell you as an employer, seeing the video and then hearing you defend it and state you were not acting irresponsibly would keep me from hiring you. Of course, you might not care about my opinion, but there might be a lurker on this site that could be someone in a position of power over you in the future, and they might just hold you responsible for it. just sayin.

All I am getting from arguments like yours and the countless numbers preaching the same is this industry loves to judge people based on their personality and lifestyle rather than their qualifcations. Kinda dissapoints me, if you don't fit the cookie cutter image of "SuperGoodExtremoMagnficentStudPilotImage" this industry will toss you out and beat you to pieces. You might posess skills far superior to those that fit the image, but because of the many folks out there, including yourself, that like to judge, someone will be tossed aside who is more than qualified. Pretty sad state of affairs.

[darrenf]

Originally Posted by TheShocker

All I am getting from arguments like yours and the countless numbers preaching the same is this industry loves to judge people based on their personality and lifestyle rather than their qualifcations. Kinda dissapoints me, if you don't fit the cookie cutter image of "SuperGoodExtremoMagnficentStudPilotImage" this industry will toss you out and beat you to pieces. You might posess skills far superior to those that fit the image, but because of the many folks out there, including yourself, that like to judge, someone will be tossed aside who is more than qualified. Pretty sad state of affairs.

Perhaps you would be wise to listen to those who are "preaching" about this industry if you chose to have a career in this industry, and by this "industry", I assume you are referring to flying. Flying does not have room for poor judgement. You can have "mad skills", but if you have bad judgement, this industry is not forgiving. And bad judgement was shown by not only the acts in the video, but also the posting of the video.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by TheShocker

All I am getting from arguments like yours and the countless numbers preaching the same is this industry loves to judge people based on their personality and lifestyle rather than their qualifcations. Kinda dissapoints me, if you don't fit the cookie cutter image of "SuperGoodExtremoMagnficentStudPilotImage" this industry will toss you out and beat you to pieces. You might posess skills far superior to those that fit the image, but because of the many folks out there, including yourself, that like to judge, someone will be tossed aside who is more than qualified. Pretty sad state of affairs.

Well that's one way of looking at it. Another way is to realize that there are more than enough pilots for the job positions out there, and employers can use practically any criteria that they would like to screen out candidates. Why should they hire someone that has publicly exhibited what some (not me, necessarily, but some...) people would consider to be hazardous behavior (as shown on video) and unrepentant attitude when there are plenty of other perfectly qualified candidates? That is, in some respects, the reality of the situation that pilots need to deal with.

It's kind of like wearing a suit to an interview. Seems pretty silly that you might be judged on what you wear when pilot skill is what you should be judged on, doesn't it? It has been said many times before, but only a small percentage of a pilot's job is actually flying a plane. There are a lot of other skills and qualifications that a person needs to be an asset to a flight department or airline, and the employers have many ways to judge who does or doesn't have those skills.

Personally, I'm familiar with the type of driving shown on those videos, understand the skill required, and also understand the minimal risk involved. It still entails a small amount of risk, no matter how it is sugar-coated. While it is probably true that Tom, doing that kind of driving, is much safer than most run-of-the-mill drivers on the road just tooling along, what he is shown doing in those videos is at least marginally more hazardous than if he were not drifting and playing, eh? Why would an airline hire someone that exhibits, publicly, that they are "risk takers"?

I can certainly understand your frustration, so I won't be personally offended if you choose not to exhibit cookie-cutter behavior yourself. As long as you understand the system and the possible consequences, feel free to wear jeans and a polo shirt to your interview. I'll be happy to applaud your independence.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by TheShocker

All I am getting from arguments like yours and the countless numbers preaching the same is this industry loves to judge people based on their personality and lifestyle rather than their qualifcations. Kinda dissapoints me, if you don't fit the cookie cutter image of "SuperGoodExtremoMagnficentStudPilotImage" this industry will toss you out and beat you to pieces. You might posess skills far superior to those that fit the image, but because of the many folks out there, including yourself, that like to judge, someone will be tossed aside who is more than qualified. Pretty sad state of affairs.

Shocker
Judging someone on their merits (personnalities, ethics, maturity, etc) is all we really have in this industry. This "ideal" is the backbone of why the seniority system works at the airlines. You cannot judge a pilot by who is more safe than the other, we all posses the same basic skill set (stick and rudder, reg knowledge, etc). Some are slightly better in one area, weaker in another, but it all basically evens out.

So if Tom and another applicant are sitting across from me for an interview, Tom and the other person have similiar flight experience, grades, did just as well in a sim eval, passed a written test with the same score, etc and I have seen this video and know it is him, whom do I choose? Who do I trust a multi million dollar airplane, countless lives, etc too. The one who THINKS he is a good "stunt" driver or the one who seems to display the conservative attitude?

Tom very well be the best stick, reg knowledge, smooth operator, but there are plenty of others that are just as good, if not better, that have their head screwed on straight.

I would be lying if I said I never broke a reg or broke the law, the difference is I don't make excuses and justify and accepted my responsibilities learned from it and moved on. Tom, and most of you guys on here, seem to think the world should bend to your will and accept you and your actions without question because, well, ya'll think your are just that damn good. Plenty of people out there who want to make something out of this career than you guys do and if ya'll keep it up, those that want it will have 5 or 6 less people to compete with for a job.

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by darrenf

Well, I don't know who you want to work for, but I can tell you as an employer, seeing the video and then hearing you defend it and state you were not acting irresponsibly would keep me from hiring you. Of course, you might not care about my opinion, but there might be a lurker on this site that could be someone in a position of power over you in the future, and they might just hold you responsible for it. just sayin.

I know what you're saying. All I'm trying to point out is that is that there really isn't anything more dangerous in this video than choosing to drive in the first place.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

I know what you're saying. All I'm trying to point out is that is that there really isn't anything more dangerous in this video than choosing to drive in the first place.

Dude...



YOU'RE NOT LISTENING!

[darrenf]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

I know what you're saying. All I'm trying to point out is that is that there really isn't anything more dangerous in this video than choosing to drive in the first place.

If that is all you are trying to point out, then you don't know what I am saying.

[JaceTheAce]

Darrenf, Dugie, and SteveC, what about my autocross videos I've posted in the past? Would this exhibit a display of irresponsibility and aggression to a potential employer?

[darrenf]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Darrenf, Dugie, and SteveC, what about my autocross videos I've posted in the past? Would this exhibit a display of irresponsibility and aggression to a potential employer?

I haven't seen your autocross vids, but I know when I used to autocross it was on a closed course or parking lot, and everyone there knew the risks. There was no chance of running into some unsuspecting citizen or another car heading the opposite direction. So, if you were on a sanctioned course, I don't understand the comparison.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Darrenf, Dugie, and SteveC, what about my autocross videos I've posted in the past? Would this exhibit a display of irresponsibility and aggression to a potential employer?

If it was done on open roads (not closed tracks) yes.

I could give to craps less if you turn yourself into a greasy spot on some motocross track, but when you put other peoples lives in danger for the sake of the moment, yup, you don't belong in the air.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by darrenf

I haven't seen your autocross vids, but I know when I used to autocross it was on a closed course or parking lot, and everyone there knew the risks. There was no chance of running into some unsuspecting citizen or another car heading the opposite direction. So, if you were on a sanctioned course, I don't understand the comparison.

I was just checkin' Glad there's an apparent difference.

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Personally, I'm familiar with the type of driving shown on those videos, understand the skill required, and also understand the minimal risk involved. It still entails a small amount of risk, no matter how it is sugar-coated. While it is probably true that Tom, doing that kind of driving, is much safer than most run-of-the-mill drivers on the road just tooling along, what he is shown doing in those videos is at least marginally more hazardous than if he were not drifting and playing, eh? Why would an airline hire someone that exhibits, publicly, that they are "risk takers"?

If you're familiar with this, then you can see that all I'm "endangering" is maybe my tires and some small snow piles right?

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

Tom, and most of you guys on here, seem to think the world should bend to your will and accept you and your actions without question because, well, ya'll think your are just that damn good.

Oh come on.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

Oh come on.

Oh come on yourself


I realize 90% of the crap ya'll post is tounge in cheek, but 10% of a lot of BS is still a lot.

Let me put this another way. YOU WERE BREAKING THE LAW AND VIDEO TAPED IT, THEN BRAGGED ABOUT IT ON AN AVIATION WEBSITE AND HAD THE STONES TO JUSTIFY IT BECAUSE "YOU ARE A BETTER DRIVE THAN EVERYONE ELSE IN ND".


Clear as mud yet, or do I need a bigger stick.

[Stone Cold]

All I was trying to point out is there are consequences for them, even in college, as harmless as you may think they are right now. Just keep it in the back of your head.

[Snickersnwa]

Wow, I didn’t know that stop signs were optional… I guess I miss that day in driver’s ed.

Seriously, I stopped counting all of ‘em you ran through mid way through the video. I was also surprised to see that this we being done in neighborhood streets. The area in which you did that “parallel park” has had problems with parked cars on the street getting sideswiped. (Not saying that it’s because of you) but, adding more reason why I shouldn’t park my car in the street there.

You noted that you did this at 2am… I’m glad that all the kids that live in that area (in the beginning and end of the video) had already been in bed. There’s usually a lot of ‘em playing outside in that area.

Truth be told, I wasn’t even going to watch this video… but, after reading some of the comments, I decided to. The driving was cool to watch, but the lack of judgment and disregard to driving rules wasn’t (and isn’t setting a good example).

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

Oh come on yourself


I realize 90% of the crap ya'll post is tounge in cheek, but 10% of a lot of BS is still a lot.

Let me put this another way. YOU WERE BREAKING THE LAW AND VIDEO TAPED IT, THEN BRAGGED ABOUT IT ON AN AVIATION WEBSITE AND HAD THE STONES TO JUSTIFY IT BECAUSE "YOU ARE A BETTER DRIVE THAN EVERYONE ELSE IN ND".


Clear as mud yet, or do I need a bigger stick.

No where in this entire video did I try to justify anything in this video by saying I was a better driver. The only thing I've been contiuously pointing out is that the roads were completely wide open and I was by myself. That's all the justifying I've done. I didn't get into an accident or recieve a citation from the police and try to make excuses about that. Chill out man.

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Wow, I didn’t know that stop signs were optional… I guess I miss that day in driver’s ed.

Seriously, I stopped counting all of ‘em you ran through mid way through the video. I was also surprised to see that this we being done in neighborhood streets. The area in which you did that “parallel park” has had problems with parked cars on the street getting sideswiped. (Not saying that it’s because of you) but, adding more reason why I shouldn’t park my car in the street there.

You noted that you did this at 2am… I’m glad that all the kids that live in that area (in the beginning and end of the video) had already been in bed. There’s usually a lot of ‘em playing outside in that area.

Truth be told, I wasn’t even going to watch this video… but, after reading some of the comments, I decided to. The driving was cool to watch, but the lack of judgment and disregard to driving rules wasn’t (and isn’t setting a good example).

Yep, my mirror got taken out when I parked on that street one night. I'm not gona comment on the rest because what I've had to say has already been said.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

No where in this entire video did I try to justify anything in this video by saying I was a better driver. The only thing I've been contiuously pointing out is that the roads were completely wide open and I was by myself. That's all the justifying I've done. I didn't get into an accident or recieve a citation from the police and try to make excuses about that. Chill out man.

I believe about 7:30 to 8:00 into the video there is on-coming traffic, and at one point you were behind another vehicle, so to say you were by yourself does you no service.

Also, I don't think it was you that said it, but above it was said "What he doesn't realize is that the driving in that video is far safer than any of the horrible local Grand Forks drivers we have here who are on their way to knitting class." So, there were implications of everybody else being horrible drivers.

Let's just agree it wasn't the smartest thing to do and posting it on an aviation web site was not very intelligent...

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

I believe about 7:30 to 8:00 into the video there is on-coming traffic, and at one point you were behind another vehicle, so to say you were by yourself does you no service.

Also, I don't think it was you that said it, but above it was said "What he doesn't realize is that the driving in that video is far safer than any of the horrible local Grand Forks drivers we have here who are on their way to knitting class." So, there were implications of everybody else being horrible drivers.

Let's just agree it wasn't the smartest thing to do and posting it on an aviation web site was not very intelligent...

There's oncoming traffic a mile and half down the road 6 minutes into the video, of which I just drive normal around. I think you're mistaking some other lights for a car. Whatever credibility I have left in this thread, I do not mess around in traffic.

I'll agree it wasn't the smartest thing in the world to post it in here.

[TheShocker]

I brought up my points out of fear this industry is resulting to I like A better than B because my biases favor A. What does it come down to, when you have a room of equally qualified pilots but you have pick only a few? How do you discriminate on who you are picking? It all comes down to opinions, right?

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by TheShocker

I brought up my points out of fear this industry is resulting to I like A better than B because my biases favor A. What does it come down to, when you have a room of equally qualified pilots but you have pick only a few? How do you discriminate on who you are picking? It all comes down to opinions, right?

I think discriminate may be too strong of a word, but I get what you are saying.

This industry is picky, why can't I get hired at UPS, I have time in type (DC8 and a type rating) of one of their aircraft. They have their "rules". If I want to play, I play by those rules.


Saying someone has a bias towards good decision making is a little disengenuous (sp?). Choosing a Purdue grad over an FBO trained pilot is a better analogy.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Wow, I didn’t know that stop signs were optional… I guess I miss that day in driver’s ed.

Yeah you missed this in driver's ed. Didn't you know? You're supposed to run ALL stop signs.

I don't think you got the part that stop signs within parking lots are optional. It is private property and has no jurisdiction with traffic laws. You can, however, be charged with trespassing if you run their nice little personally installed stop sign...that is, if they catch you.