Horrible Flying weather on the way? Weather.com thinks so yikes

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by Dj To Rule

Which makes them overload on UND new-hires..

I'm sure Angel would agree with me, the quality of instruction from leads and experienced CFIs definitely makes the difference.

Ya'll put too much emphasis on the quality you get from the LEADS, nothing special, nothing saying they have any more experience (hell I had more dual given than almost every LEAD save for the lifers).

Any place with younger instructors is going to have growing pains, the problem is UND has those growing pains on about a 3 year cycle.

I would argue that most "off the street" CFIs would have a hard time passing the written test UND has for new hire instructors (I think the test is BS). One of the best instructors I knew at UND was from the Pac NW, great guy, came to PDT after I did and washed out of training there, apples to oranges, maybe, but the proof is always in the pudding sweethearts.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

no need.

UND doesnt hire CFIs from outside.

Where are you getting your info from? There are some CFI's here that were hired outside of UND...

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

You're right. No one's forcing me to take 112 if I come here with my PPL. I can skip straight to 222.

I'm assuming that's dripping with sarcasm of course...

When I took a tour here at the school a long time ago, the school representatives recommended to me to not get my PPL before attending UND. Because, then I would be required to take the 112 course. Tours are good, and it ended up saving me money because I did want to get my PPL just before attending. UND doesn’t *hide* the fact that there’s a test course.

[Dj To Rule]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

It absolutely does make a difference. I have many positive things to say of some of the current leads that UND has.
The thing is you usually hear the bad side first before the positive side. Just like Venhuizen (sp?) says in his classes...I forget what the number is, but people normally tell 30 people of their bad experience before talking about their good experiences w/ a business. It's something like a 1:30 ratio. He was talking about how he tells everyone how much he hates GFK Flight Support but rarely tells people how he really likes the service he gets at Crookston. It's the same w/ UND or any other business for that matter.

Some of the current leads are VERY helpful, and it really DOES make a difference in training. I'm actually very happy with my current instructor as well. He trained outside of UND prior to coming here. His real world experience has been highly beneficial in my CFII training.

Newly hired UND CFIs should not be teaching instructor courses.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Where are you getting your info from? There are some CFI's here that were hired outside of UND...



I'm assuming that's dripping with sarcasm of course...

When I took a tour here at the school a long time ago, the school representatives recommended to me to not get my PPL before attending UND. Because, then I would be required to take the 112 course. Tours are good, and it ended up saving me money because I did want to get my PPL just before attending. UND doesn’t *hide* the fact that there’s a test course.

you clearly missed my sarcasm. but really, id bet theres at least 30:1 of UND vs non-UND instructors here...

then again, maybe CFIs elsewhere are smarter than to come here.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

When I took a tour here at the school a long time ago, the school representatives recommended to me to not get my PPL before attending UND.

That's very true. UND PPLs are superior to licenses acquired outside UND.

For the record, I actually came w/ 0 hours here.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by Dj To Rule

KGFK, KMIC/KMSP ?

Yes, he hangs out with just me... his only friend...

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Yes, he hangs out with just me... his only friend...

hey, im friends with a black guy! (or whatever minority you prefer)

[Dj To Rule]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

Ya'll put too much emphasis on the quality you get from the LEADS, nothing special, nothing saying they have any more experience (hell I had more dual given than almost every LEAD save for the lifers).

Any place with younger instructors is going to have growing pains, the problem is UND has those growing pains on about a 3 year cycle.

I would argue that most "off the street" CFIs would have a hard time passing the written test UND has for new hire instructors (I think the test is BS). One of the best instructors I knew at UND was from the Pac NW, great guy, came to PDT after I did and washed out of training there, apples to oranges, maybe, but the proof is always in the pudding sweethearts.

Most leads I flew with, elder people, were great instructors.
My best experiences and learning has come from courses with experienced instructors.

You are right, just because they are a lead does not mean they are experienced. So it may be better to say experienced.

The problem with new hires is that they get extremely anal, paranoid, and competitive with their students and start quizzing them for their own insecurities.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

you clearly missed my sarcasm. but really, id bet theres at least 30:1 of UND vs non-UND instructors here...

then again, maybe CFIs elsewhere are smarter than to come here.

I can't speak numbers, because I don't have them. But, that's why many apply when hiring takes place? And, I want to say that UND doesn't *advertise* the fact that they're hiring to the outside. It seems to be fairly internal. I could be wrong though...

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

That's very true. UND PPLs are superior to licenses acquired outside UND.

Again, sarcasm without the tag? I can't tell for sure because I don't know you.

UND has a great program, but that doesn't mean that "Joe Student" from the local FBO with a good instructor won't be a good pilot.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

hey, im friends with a black guy! (or whatever minority you prefer)

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by Dj To Rule

The problem with new hires is that they get extremely anal, paranoid, and competitive with their students and start quizzing them for their own insecurities.

What in the world are you talking about?

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by Dj To Rule

Most leads I flew with, elder people, were great instructors.
My best experiences and learning has come from courses with experienced instructors.

You are right, just because they are a lead does not mean they are experienced. So it may be better to say experienced.

The problem with new hires is that they get extremely anal, paranoid, and competitive with their students and start quizzing them for their own insecurities.

Yup, I can see that, but I don't think you can fairly relate that to being UND's fault, I think it is a generation thing (ie GenX, GenY, etc). Someone like that is going to be a dick at UND or at local corn field FBO.

I am starting to see it more and more now that I am away from flying 18 days a month and just being around "younger" people, and I'm not that old (30 in a few months). The instant gratification, desire to be an individual BUT be noticed and approved of by everyone, etc etc. No one really takes pride in what they do anymore.

The students I had the hardest time with fit that above mold. Any criticism was met with a myriad of excuses, an incomplete lesson was my way of milking them for money, a faied checkride, well the IP was out to get them, etc etc. Ask yourselves an honest question, of all the people you know in the aviation program, and with the probable amount of some failed stage checks, how many of them blamed themselves and LEARNED from it, or how many blamed something other than themselves (wind, bad stage pilot, did it correctly but the instructor didn't care, etc)? If that answer is heavily skewed towards NOT blaming themselves you gotta wonder, what is the real problem?

Here is an idea for you guys to take to the higher ups about the 112 course. Make it part of the commercial TCO, that way the time counts towards your 90 or so hours that you need by the end of 323. No reason it can't be and it would not be a waste of money and probably save a lot of headaches come the end of 323.

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

Here is an idea for you guys to take to the higher ups about the 112 course. Make it part of the commercial TCO, that way the time counts towards your 90 or so hours that you need by the end of 323. No reason it can't be and it would not be a waste of money and probably save a lot of headaches come the end of 323.

That's actually not a bad idea. I had to make up about 6 hours of flight time in 323. I knew of the 98 hour requirement early on so I made some of my 221 and 222 x-countries a little longer though.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

Maybe you thought I was somehow disrespecting the victims?

Yeah. I know someone who was very very close to one of the victims. But, at any rate, I thought that some of the comments made were out of line.

[ZUKO]

God today was a bad day.

So I am sitting in ground school and my ground school teacher is asking the class a bunch of questions...

So he asks the class what ldmax was and I go "ohhh I know this ummm" before I could finish he goes "Justin, shut up. Let me go to the back of the room and ask the people with certification. "

I really liked the teacher before this class. He must of been having a bad day but he didnt seem like it.

Oh and not only that. Some student after class turns in observation flights. At the start of the class I noticed they were not in the syllabus so I figured I didndt have to do them. He never mentioned them. I go up to him and ask him and he goes "Do you wake up every day deciding to be crazy? Its in the syllabus and I talked about them in class."

I checked the syllabus online right after class and boom nothing.

UND Aerospace... We train sooo much better then everywhere else that customer service is optional.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

God today was a bad day.

So I am sitting in ground school and my ground school teacher is asking the class a bunch of questions...

So he asks the class what ldmax was and I go "ohhh I know this ummm" before I could finish he goes "Justin, shut up. Let me go to the back of the room and ask the people with certification. "

I really liked the teacher before this class. He must of been having a bad day but he didnt seem like it.

Oh and not only that. Some student after class turns in observation flights. At the start of the class I noticed they were not in the syllabus so I figured I didndt have to do them. He never mentioned them. I go up to him and ask him and he goes "Do you wake up every day deciding to be crazy? Its in the syllabus and I talked about them in class."

I checked the syllabus online right after class and boom nothing.

UND Aerospace... We train sooo much better then everywhere else that customer service is optional.

haha i actually want to know who that instructor is so i can sign up for them!! some of the do-do brains in my 222 class need a good smack every so often! (not related to your situation, just wanting to see some tards in my class get the smackdown :-D )


on the other hand, an instructor telling a student to "shut up", no matter the situation, is completely out of line.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Again, sarcasm without the tag? I can't tell for sure because I don't know you.

UND has a great program, but that doesn't mean that "Joe Student" from the local FBO with a good instructor won't be a good pilot.

Indeed, my posts were dripping and melting with sarcasm.

[Farva]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

hey, im friends with a black guy! (or whatever minority you prefer)

He Hangs with me....

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

Indeed, my posts were dripping and melting with sarcasm.

[excessthrust]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

God today was a bad day.

So I am sitting in ground school and my ground school teacher is asking the class a bunch of questions...

So he asks the class what ldmax was and I go "ohhh I know this ummm" before I could finish he goes "Justin, shut up. Let me go to the back of the room and ask the people with certification. "

I really liked the teacher before this class. He must of been having a bad day but he didnt seem like it.

Oh and not only that. Some student after class turns in observation flights. At the start of the class I noticed they were not in the syllabus so I figured I didndt have to do them. He never mentioned them. I go up to him and ask him and he goes "Do you wake up every day deciding to be crazy? Its in the syllabus and I talked about them in class."

I checked the syllabus online right after class and boom nothing.

UND Aerospace... We train sooo much better then everywhere else that customer service is optional.

That seems like an odd thing to say out of the blue. Did you have CFI students or observers in your class he was referring to with 'certification'? At this point, I wouldn't think anyone in a Spring 102 class would have completed all the flying and have a certificate.

BTW-If observations were never mentioned in class and not on the syllabus, how did the other student know to turn one in? Did you miss a day of class? Did everyone else hold class and talk about observations without you?

Like the rank smells of Simplot and Red Lobster, something smells fishy... I don't miss that part of GFK at all!!

[ZUKO]

Originally Posted by excessthrust

That seems like an odd thing to say out of the blue. Did you have CFI students or observers in your class he was referring to with 'certification'? At this point, I wouldn't think anyone in a Spring 102 class would have completed all the flying and have a certificate.

Those students in back are aviation 112 students. Basically the people who come to UND who already have their private pilot certificate being forced to take the same class I am.

BTW-If observations were never mentioned in class and not on the syllabus, how did the other student know to turn one in? Did you miss a day of class? Did everyone else hold class and talk about observations without you?

That students brother is a CFI and told him about it. I have not missed any class. Its not a big deal that I have to do them. I just do not like being called crazy. I am 99% that observations were never talked about because he forgot to put them in Course Outline.

Like the rank smells of Simplot and Red Lobster, something smells fishy... I don't miss that part of GFK at all!! I hate that smell.

(My response in bold)

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

UND Aerospace... We train sooo much better then everywhere else that customer service is optional.

Your groundschool teacher is a great resource, and has tons of experience (not going to mention names), and cares about his students very much.

Some of my most fond memories were in that class years ago.

[ZUKO]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Your groundschool teacher is a great resource, and has tons of experience (not going to mention names), and cares about his students very much.

Some of my most fond memories were in that class years ago.

I agree with you. Thats why it shocked me. I really do not think he meant anything personal by it. He has been really awesome prior to this. Just curious but how do you know who I have?

Sometimes people slip and say things that they didnt mean to come out the way it did. etc. If it happens again, I will likely ask him about it.

[Farva]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Your groundschool teacher is a great resource, and has tons of experience (not going to mention names), and cares about his students very much.

Some of my most fond memories were in that class years ago.

I remember those times,...remember suzie.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

I agree with you. Thats why it shocked me. I really do not think he meant anything personal by it. He has been really awesome prior to this. Just curious but how do you know who I have?

Sometimes people slip and say things that they didnt mean to come out the way it did. etc. If it happens again, I will likely ask him about it.

Well, I keep finding out that the industry isn’t as big as I thought it was, and that this school is pretty tight-knit. From what I’ve heard, I’m not sure that his reaction was quite the way that you had put it though. He does joke around a lot as well.

Also, there's a ton of time left in the semester to get those observation flights done... no need to worry!