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[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by CAFFEINE

It's the private pilot test course (for incoming students who already hold a private pilot certificate).

Those of you so against 112 have obviously never taught a test course student. Some are good, others will make you wonder how they ever managed to pass their part 61 checkride.

I'm against it because it wasn't neccessary for me to do it, at all!

I agree that they should have the test course, but it definitly shouldn't be mandatory. They should give a mock stage check to see if you even need to take it.

For me it was a complete waste of time, money and the use of an instructor. Every lesson basically started off with "alright we're gona go waste about 150 dollars of your money to train you on stuff you already do well within standards". Alright, not those exact words, but we both felt like that.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by CAFFEINE

Those of you so against 112 have obviously never taught a test course student. Some are good, others will make you wonder how they ever managed to pass their part 61 checkride.

I'm sure your point is VERY valid Caffeine. However, I highly doubt that a 112 course completion would have prevented bad decision-making by the defunct UND ROTC students at Crookston.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

They should give a mock stage check to see if you even need to take it.

I think we can all agree that UND definitely has monetary interests in forcing students to take this course.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

I'm sure your point is VERY valid Caffeine. However, I highly doubt that a 112 course completion would have prevented bad decision-making by the defunct UND ROTC students at Crookston.

112 course cant battle against two guys who are used to saying HOOAH YES SIR... ie - following orders instead of thinking for themselves.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

112 course cant battle against two guys who are used to saying HOOAH YES SIR... ie - following orders instead of thinking for themselves.

What happened?

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

What happened?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...08X01764&key=1

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

What happened?

two 18 year old rotc kids with wet-ink pilots licenses went rent a cessna on a day with low ceiling, low vis, icing, high wind.... and subsequently dug themselves a nice burial plot in the minnesota prairie about a mile from the depature end of the runway.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Had he completed 112, that wouldn't have happened.

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

huh???

How does making fun of UND's 112 course policy have ANYTHING to do with us enjoying someone's death? Don't try adding a completely different meaning to the obvious.

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

I'm sure your point is VERY valid Caffeine. However, I highly doubt that a 112 course completion would have prevented bad decision-making by the defunct UND ROTC students at Crookston.

I read the post as if saying that “even though he was a private pilot, he isn’t good *enough* until done with 112.” Thus, making fun of the 112 course. (hence the sarcasm tag). I’m not saying that you’re “enjoying someone’s death” – Don’t put words in my mouth.

I agree with CAFF in what he’s said already about the course.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

I read the post as if saying that “even though he was a private pilot, he isn’t good *enough* until done with 112.” Thus, making fun of the 112 course. (hence the sarcasm tag). I’m not saying that you’re “enjoying someone’s death” – Don’t put words in my mouth.

I agree with CAFF in what he’s said already about the course.

so then why do we still have terrifyingly incompetent pilots at UND who are passing 102, 221, 222...etc etc....??

we should do a test course after each course to make sure you met the standards we already passed you on. (circular thinking much?)

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

two 18 year old rotc kids with wet-ink pilots licenses went rent a cessna on a day with low ceiling, low vis, icing, high wind.... and subsequently dug themselves a nice burial plot in the minnesota prairie about a mile from the depature end of the runway.

That wasn't very smart of them. Whose orders were they following?

[MrLeisure757]

I'm 112. I'll comment on it. It's a waste of money and time. I'm amazed at the disrespect I get from people who say; "Oh geez, 112, you guys think you know it all. You'll have such a hard time." Well ummm yeah, the only reason I had a difficult time was because UND procedures weren't taught to me at home 1500 miles away. Waste of money. Instruction was good, I don't question that. Eliminate the course. Feel free to disagree, I'll disagree with you right back.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Don’t put words in my mouth.

Ok, I'll take those words out of your mouth, I misunderstood you then. . Maybe you thought I was somehow disrespecting the victims?

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

so then why do we still have terrifyingly incompetent pilots at UND who are passing 102, 221, 222...etc etc....??

we should do a test course after each course to make sure you met the standards we already passed you on. (circular thinking much?)

Maybe UND should make CFIs (non-UND trained) hired at UND take the 112 test course since they are unfamiliar with UND Aerospace's operations. It would be much safer.

[Dj To Rule]

Originally Posted by CAFFEINE

Keep up the UND bashing Jace. UND is not out to get you despite what you want to think.

Seriously, some of you guys have a real crappy attitude towards everything. It must suck to be so freaking misserable.

Must suck for you to be surrounded with diverse people and ideas.. UND bubble

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

Maybe UND should make CFIs hired outside UND take the 112 test course since they are unfamiliar with UND Aerospace's operations. It would be much safer.

no need.

UND doesnt hire CFIs from outside.

[TheShocker]

About the test course, I agree with Tom! Not everyone is going to come into UND with the same level of training. Why put Joe through a course that costs him ~$4500 when he is just as profficient or even more than most of UND students. It simply doesn't make sense to spend so much on something that can be completed in 2 briefings and a flight or two. The same way you can test out of language and Math, UND should create an comprehensive stage to waive having to take 112.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

I think we can all agree that UND definitely has monetary interests in forcing students to take this course.

Nobody is *forcing* you to do anything.

My thoughts here, but if you’re going through the program and graduating from UND, that’s something that’ll appear on your resume. UND has a great reputation, and making sure that everyone goes through the same courses keeps the name going strong.

If you have thoughts or concerns about this I urge you to talk to your lead, course manager, or ground school instructor.

[Dj To Rule]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

no need.

UND doesnt hire CFIs from outside.

Which makes them overload on UND new-hires..

I'm sure Angel would agree with me, the quality of instruction from leads and experienced CFIs definitely makes the difference.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Nobody is *forcing* you to do anything.

You're right. No one's forcing me to take 112 if I come here with my PPL. I can skip straight to 222.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

no need.

UND doesnt hire CFIs from outside.

Yeeeup. Keep the in-breeding going, a continuously revolving state of not being able to think outside the box.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by Dj To Rule

Must suck for you to be surrounded with diverse people and ideas.. UND bubble

Do you know who he hangs out with?

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by MrLeisure757

I'm 112. I'll comment on it. It's a waste of money and time. I'm amazed at the disrespect I get from people who say; "Oh geez, 112, you guys think you know it all. You'll have such a hard time." Well ummm yeah, the only reason I had a difficult time was because UND procedures weren't taught to me at home 1500 miles away. Waste of money. Instruction was good, I don't question that. Eliminate the course. Feel free to disagree, I'll disagree with you right back.

I did enjoy the flying, but couldn't stop thinking about how much of a waste of money it was.

The guys giving you crap is rediculous. Umm, you already have your PPL, why the fark shouldn't you know it all already?(as it applies to 102) I got grief too. Not so much grief, but my friends in that class always thought it was funny that I didn't pay attention too much in class, didn't study a lot and then got high 90s and 100% on the block exams.

[TheShocker]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Nobody is *forcing* you to do anything.

My thoughts here, but if you’re going through the program and graduating from UND, that’s something that’ll appear on your resume. UND has a great reputation, and making sure that everyone goes through the same courses keeps the name going strong.

If you have thoughts or concerns about this I urge you to talk to your lead, course manager, or ground school instructor.

People seriously need to get over themselves and the idea by having UND on their resume automatically makes them a better pilots. That is up to the individual, you are begginning to sound like Riddle guys now.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by Dj To Rule

Which makes them overload on UND new-hires..

I'm sure Angel would agree with me, the quality of instruction from leads and experienced CFIs definitely makes the difference.

It absolutely does make a difference. I have many positive things to say of some of the current leads that UND has.
The thing is you usually hear the bad side first before the positive side. Just like Venhuizen (sp?) says in his classes...I forget what the number is, but people normally tell 30 people of their bad experience before talking about their good experiences w/ a business. It's something like a 1:30 ratio. He was talking about how he tells everyone how much he hates GFK Flight Support but rarely tells people how he really likes the service he gets at Crookston. It's the same w/ UND or any other business for that matter.

Some of the current leads are VERY helpful, and it really DOES make a difference in training. I'm actually very happy with my current instructor as well. He trained outside of UND prior to coming here. His real world experience has been highly beneficial in my CFII training.

Newly hired UND CFIs should not be teaching instructor courses.

[Dj To Rule]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Do you know who he hangs out with?

KGFK, KMIC/KMSP ?