Flying at 7AM...

airplanerik · February 17th, 2007, 13:40

...is pretty nice on a Saturday morning! haha. (except for the whole waking up part) But...front row parking, no crowds to fight, preflight in the hangar, practice area to yourself, smooth air, light winds. What more could you ask for? Needless to say, i don't think i'll be doing it again anytime soon!

the_dmn8tr · February 17th, 2007, 14:40

When I did my long XC for 221 I left at 0630. The SOF knew my name right as I walked up before handing him the paper because I was the only launch that early.

UAL747400 · February 17th, 2007, 15:03

I like it too once getting in the air. The hour before actually stepping into the airplane sucks so bad though that it's not even worth it to me.

I don't know what my problem is. I can get up at 5 in the morning for work no problem, even if I only get 3 hour of sleep. Getting up at the hours of 7 or 10 just feel bad to me.

falconvalley · February 17th, 2007, 16:49

I had to get up at 3:15 am the other day, just to make the show time. 5 am wake up? No problem!

MrLeisure757 · February 17th, 2007, 18:16

Had an 11AM launch this morning. Woke up at 8:30 checked the TAF, looked a little questionable, but good enough to do our lesson. Called for Weather and get told light snow will come through, but visibility will be unrestricted and ceiling will be just fine. Interesting...So we taxi out, holding short and tower calls us to say he suggests we go back, lots of other UND guys that took off were turning around. We decide to head back. Just then field goes IFR. 2 miles, 1,000 ft. Got .4 for that one! No charge either, that was nice...Oh well.

Snickersnwa · February 17th, 2007, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeisure757

Had an 11AM launch this morning. Woke up at 8:30 checked the TAF, looked a little questionable, but good enough to do our lesson. Called for Weather and get told light snow will come through, but visibility will be unrestricted and ceiling will be just fine. Interesting...So we taxi out, holding short and tower calls us to say he suggests we go back, lots of other UND guys that took off were turning around. We decide to head back. Just then field goes IFR. 2 miles, 1,000 ft. Got .4 for that one! No charge either, that was nice...Oh well.

I hope you didn't log that...

But, early AM launches are the BEST!

(I'm absolutely serious)

UAL747400 · February 17th, 2007, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

I hope you didn't log that...

But, early AM launches are the BEST!

(I'm absolutely serious)

Psh, I taxi around for at least another half hour every lesson. haha

I'd love to hear someone request that.

"Yeah, I'd like to taxi to the GA ramp. Alright, now I'd like to taxi to 35L and back to Bravo ramp."

Snickersnwa · February 17th, 2007, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

I hope you didn't log that...

I guess I could have been a little more specific... Taken from the FAR's (§1.1)

Quote:

Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing;...

Snickersnwa · February 17th, 2007, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by UAL747400

Psh, I taxi around for at least another half hour every lesson. haha

I'd love to hear someone request that.

"Yeah, I'd like to taxi to the GA ramp. Alright, now I'd like to taxi to 35L and back to Bravo ramp."

you go ahead and do that

TheShocker · February 17th, 2007, 22:51

The 7AM launches are meh, especially on a weekday which I have done. But there is also the cheesy side to such early launches in that you get to see the sunrise and everything is all quiet.

Snickersnwa · February 17th, 2007, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShocker

The 7AM launches are meh, especially on a weekday which I have done. But there is also the cheesy side to such early launches in that you get to see the sunrise and everything is all quiet.

You can see that from under the hood?

haha

TheShocker · February 17th, 2007, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

You can see that from under the hood?

haha

You know something funny, when you have to wake up your instructor from his sleep at 6:40AM for your 7AM launch.

Snickersnwa · February 17th, 2007, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShocker

You know something funny, when you have to wake up your instructor from his sleep at 6:40AM for your 7AM launch.

haha (I'm not your instructor) but your instructor swore the alarm didn't go off. Stuff happens. I'm sure that's never happened to you

TheShocker · February 17th, 2007, 23:39

He He, I know who my instructor is. I know #### happens, I thought it was seriously funny though. Thats all....

Screaming_Emu · February 17th, 2007, 23:53

I had a 7am launch every day last summer for CFII, only time you could get a Cirrus, and even then it was somewhat questionable. Definitely some advantages to flying so early in the morning.

MrLeisure757 · February 18th, 2007, 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

I guess I could have been a little more specific... Taken from the FAR's (§1.1)

I'm pretty sure it is loggable. You are operating under the aircraft's power for the purpose of flight.

Snickersnwa · February 18th, 2007, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeisure757

I'm pretty sure it is loggable. You are operating under the aircraft's power for the purpose of flight.

That *flight* cannot be logged.

"...that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight AND ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing;... "

I think it's pretty clear. Yes, you had intent to fly, but from what you've said you didn't take off.

MrLeisure757 · February 18th, 2007, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

That *flight* cannot be logged.

"...that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight AND ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing;... "

I think it's pretty clear. Yes, you had intent to fly, but from what you've said you didn't take off.

It's loggable. I do know that. You can do as you fancy with your logbook when you encounter as situation as such.

Snickersnwa · February 18th, 2007, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeisure757

It's loggable. I do know that. You can do as you fancy with your logbook when you encounter as situation as such.

Can you prove that?

Take a careful look at the definition. They don't say "or." There needs to be intent for flight "And" a landing. How can you land without taking off?

undsioux1 · February 18th, 2007, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeisure757

It's loggable. I do know that. You can do as you fancy with your logbook when you encounter as situation as such.

No, its defidently not loggable. Snickersnwa is 100% correct on this one. You need to leave the ground in order to log a flight in the logbook. Try again.

Siberianflyer · February 18th, 2007, 20:14

"It's loggable. I do know that. You can do as you fancy with your logbook when you encounter as situation as such."

...........

StrangerDejaVu · February 18th, 2007, 20:40

I believe they changed the wording of that reg between 2003 and 2004. If I remember correctly, it used to be you could log any time with the airplane running with the 'intention' to fly - the first .2 in my logbook is when I was taxiing for takeoff on my first 102 flight lesson, then UND went no-fly. Now you need to do all the landing junk.

Farva · February 19th, 2007, 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siberianflyer

"It's loggable. I do know that. You can do as you fancy with your logbook when you encounter as situation as such."

...........

right on

excessthrust · February 19th, 2007, 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeisure757

It's loggable. I do know that. You can do as you fancy with your logbook when you encounter as situation as such.

I suppose you can do as you 'fancy', but don't expect a CFI or check airman to sign their name to a logbook entry they are unsure of. Kinda shady if you were to go back a year or two when a CFI filled out your logbook and only listed time as dual received, and you add time into the PIC category without consenting with the CFI. If a student (at least private pilot) and instructor do not designate the student as PIC and log just dual received, but you go back and change the logbook entry, the FAA has, on occasion interpreted that as falsifying. (There used to be an example in the book "FAR's Explained")

That's one of the reasons UND's MEI students used to log equal PIC and Dual time in the first block (just reviewing for proficiency) but log .1 less PIC than dual in the second block (The instructor has to take the controls and be 'taught' at least once.) People who left the same PIC and dual time throughout and who didn't want to wait to do the check at UND so went elsewhere sometimes got called on that by the FSDO and other DPE's.

Flight time must include a takeoff and landing. FAR 1.1 & 61.51(b)(1)(iii)

It's the same reason that most airplanes' hour meters only record actual flight time. (Weight on wheels switch, airspeed switch, etc.) In the occasion that you taxi to the runway and have a MX situation or WX, you normally would never see any Hobbs time click. (Look in a brand new aircraft when it gets delivered to UND. It only has the 'MX Hobbs') UND's aircraft have the "Billing Hobbs" installed aftermarket that just runs off of the oil pressure. That Billing Hobbs helps track the time on normal flights better than a stopwatch, etc. It also helps UND bill for more time...

A&P's can taxi an aircraft without a pilot's license...do they log it as flight time?

MrLeisure757 · February 19th, 2007, 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by excessthrust

A&P's can taxi an aircraft without a pilot's license...do they log it as flight time?

Do they intend on going flying? No.

February 17th, 2007, 13:40	#1
airplanerik Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: California Posts: 628	Flying at 7AM... ...is pretty nice on a Saturday morning! haha. (except for the whole waking up part) But...front row parking, no crowds to fight, preflight in the hangar, practice area to yourself, smooth air, light winds. What more could you ask for? Needless to say, i don't think i'll be doing it again anytime soon! __________________ CP-AMEL IA CFI, CFII

February 17th, 2007, 14:40	#2
the_dmn8tr Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Olathe, KS/ Grand Forks, ND Posts: 462	Re: Flying at 7AM... When I did my long XC for 221 I left at 0630. The SOF knew my name right as I walked up before handing him the paper because I was the only launch that early.

February 17th, 2007, 15:03	#3
UAL747400 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Grand Forks, ND (UND)/ Davenport, IA Posts: 2,204	Re: Flying at 7AM... I like it too once getting in the air. The hour before actually stepping into the airplane sucks so bad though that it's not even worth it to me. I don't know what my problem is. I can get up at 5 in the morning for work no problem, even if I only get 3 hour of sleep. Getting up at the hours of 7 or 10 just feel bad to me. __________________

February 17th, 2007, 16:49	#4
falconvalley Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: KMKE Posts: 2,036	Re: Flying at 7AM... I had to get up at 3:15 am the other day, just to make the show time. 5 am wake up? No problem! __________________ British Airways flight asks for push back clearance from terminal. Control Tower replies: "And where is the world's most experienced airline going today without filing a flight plan?"

February 17th, 2007, 18:16	#5
MrLeisure757 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: . Posts: 754	Re: Flying at 7AM... Had an 11AM launch this morning. Woke up at 8:30 checked the TAF, looked a little questionable, but good enough to do our lesson. Called for Weather and get told light snow will come through, but visibility will be unrestricted and ceiling will be just fine. Interesting...So we taxi out, holding short and tower calls us to say he suggests we go back, lots of other UND guys that took off were turning around. We decide to head back. Just then field goes IFR. 2 miles, 1,000 ft. Got .4 for that one! No charge either, that was nice...Oh well.

February 17th, 2007, 22:51	#10
TheShocker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Queens/Grand Forks Posts: 346	Re: Flying at 7AM... The 7AM launches are meh, especially on a weekday which I have done. But there is also the cheesy side to such early launches in that you get to see the sunrise and everything is all quiet.

February 17th, 2007, 23:39	#14
TheShocker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Queens/Grand Forks Posts: 346	Re: Flying at 7AM... He He, I know who my instructor is. I know #### happens, I thought it was seriously funny though. Thats all....

February 17th, 2007, 23:53	#15
Screaming_Emu Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 3,403	Re: Flying at 7AM... I had a 7am launch every day last summer for CFII, only time you could get a Cirrus, and even then it was somewhat questionable. Definitely some advantages to flying so early in the morning. __________________ Commercial Pilot - ASEL, AMEL, Instrument CFI/II 1050TT CRJ-700 FO at Southernjets Connection Former flight instructor out of KBWI and W29 Loves Dutch chicks "jtrain609: I wish I had a pair"

February 18th, 2007, 20:14	#21
Siberianflyer Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North Dakota Posts: 38	Re: Flying at 7AM... "It's loggable. I do know that. You can do as you fancy with your logbook when you encounter as situation as such." ........... __________________

February 18th, 2007, 20:40	#22
StrangerDejaVu Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: KGFK/KSJC Posts: 125	Re: Flying at 7AM... I believe they changed the wording of that reg between 2003 and 2004. If I remember correctly, it used to be you could log any time with the airplane running with the 'intention' to fly - the first .2 in my logbook is when I was taxiing for takeoff on my first 102 flight lesson, then UND went no-fly. Now you need to do all the landing junk.

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