empirical data on why Grand Forks sucks

[TXaviator]

just some numbers to back up my claims that grand forks sucks.

lets examine some key areas: earning potential / salaries, housing costs, education, diversity

all data from city-data.com (generally draws from census data)

for the purposes of supporting my claims, i will compare Grand Forks to my hometown of Austin, TX



GROWTH
======
claim: "oh you betcha grand fork is growing!!"
fact: growth is slow or non-existant

Grand Forks
Population (year 2000): 49,321. Estimated population in July 2005: 49,792 (+1.0% change)
Population change in the 1990s: -132 (-0.3%).

Austin
Population (year 2000): 656,562. Estimated population in July 2005: 690,252 (+5.1% change)
Population change in the 1990s: +159,408 (+32.1%).


DIVERSITY
========
claim: "we have a diverse population of all cultures"
fact: the area is overwhelmingly white and homogenous

Grand Forks

Races in Grand Forks:

• White Non-Hispanic (92.3%)
• American Indian (3.5%)
• Hispanic (1.9%)
• Two or more races (1.4%)
• Black (0.9%)
• Other race (0.6%)

3.3% Foreign born (1.1% North America, 0.9% Europe, 0.9% Asia, 0.3% Latin America).

Austin

Races in Austin:

• White Non-Hispanic (52.9%)
• Hispanic (30.5%)
• Other race (16.2%)
• Black (10.0%)
• Two or more races (3.0%)
• Chinese (1.2%)
• Asian Indian (1.2%)
• American Indian (1.1%)
• Vietnamese (0.9%)
• Korean (0.5%)

16.6% Foreign born (11.0% Latin America, 3.8% Asia).


ECONOMIC
=========
claim: "grand fork is a great place to do business and is thriving"
fact: wages are low, and business is limited to retail/service with no substantial large business or innovation

Grand Forks
Industries providing employment: Educational,health and social services (30.4%), Retail trade (14.4%), Arts,entertainment,recreation,accommodation and food services (11.8%).

Median household income: $34,194 (year 2000)

Austin
Industries providing employment: Educational,health and social services (17.6%), Professional,scientific,management,administrative, and waste management services (13.8%), Manufacturing (12.6%), Retail trade (10.9%).

Median household income: $42,689 (year 2000)


HOUSING
=======
claim: "grand fork has cheap housing"
fact: grand fork housing is not cheap by any means, and the quality of homes built are much lower than elsewhere. (this carries over into apartment/rental living as well)

Single Family home new construction
Grand Forks
2005: 170 buildings, average cost: $148,600

Austin
2005: 4569 buildings, average cost: $127,600



EDUCATION
=========
claim: "people in grand fork are not idiot hicks"
fact: yes they are.

Grand Fork

For population 25 years and over in Grand Forks

• Bachelor's degree or higher: 30.3%
• Graduate or professional degree: 10.5%
• Unemployed: 4.3%

Austin

For population 25 years and over in Austin

• Bachelor's degree or higher: 40.4%
• Graduate or professional degree: 14.7%
• Unemployed: 4.4%

CONCLUSIONS
===========

These factors are the foundations of making a town great, or suck. Educated, diverse people with well-paying jobs, and affordable housing are keys to success. These factors also give rise to recreational activity, cultural activity, etc etc.

Having none of these things, and also being in a location isolated from them, plainly sucks.

[UAL747400]

I love seeing all these numbers that prove that it does cost more to live in GF than just about any metropolitan area. Rediculous!!! That's my main gripe, among many others.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

I love seeing all these numbers that prove that it does cost more to live in GF than just about any metropolitan area. Rediculous!!! That's my main gripe, among many others.

Grand Fork
2004 (3rd Quarter) ACCRA Cost of Living Index: 96.0 (U.S. average = 100.0)

Austin
2004 (3rd Quarter) ACCRA Cost of Living Index: 94.1 (U.S. average = 100.0)


CONFIRMED! grand forks is at BEST, "average" cost of living. but when placed in such a ####hole.... well... yeah. theres no "score" for that

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

Grand Fork
2004 (3rd Quarter) ACCRA Cost of Living Index: 96.0 (U.S. average = 100.0)

Austin
2004 (3rd Quarter) ACCRA Cost of Living Index: 94.1 (U.S. average = 100.0)


CONFIRMED! grand forks is at BEST, "average" cost of living. but when placed in such a ####hole.... well... yeah. theres no "score" for that

What website did you get all your information from on your original post? Your second one for that matter as well? I'd like to make some more comparisons to continue the b!tch fest. haha

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

j

Grand Forks

Races in Grand Forks:

• White Non-Hispanic (92.3%)
• American Indian (3.5%)
• Hispanic (1.9%)
• Two or more races (1.4%)
• Black (0.9%)
• Other race (0.6%)

3.3% Foreign born (1.1% North America, 0.9% Europe, 0.9% Asia, 0.3% Latin America).

Austin

Races in Austin:

• White Non-Hispanic (52.9%)
• Hispanic (30.5%)
• Other race (16.2%)
• Black (10.0%)
• Two or more races (3.0%)
• Chinese (1.2%)
• Asian Indian (1.2%)
• American Indian (1.1%)
• Vietnamese (0.9%)
• Korean (0.5%)

16.6% Foreign born (11.0% Latin America, 3.8% Asia).



Having none of these things, and also being in a location isolated from them, plainly sucks.

Where are your crime rate statistics? How about violent crimes? It has been proven with an increase in non white population there is an increase in crime.

p.s. You need help

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

Where are your crime rate statistics? How about violent crimes? It has been proven with an increase in non white population there is an increase in crime.

p.s. You need help

theres this thing called "not statistically significant"

check it out.

it would not make sense to compare statistics that are generally on the scale of (occurence / 100,000 persons) when GF has only roughly 50,000 people.

and what do i need help with?

[stuckingfk]

Here is something interesting. edit, how do you get it to appear in the post and not as attached? Do you have to upload it to a hosting site?

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

Here is something interesting. edit, how do you get it to appear in the post and not as attached? Do you have to upload it to a hosting site?

very cool!

ok so according to your site we will

a) earn more in austin

b) spend less on groceries

c) spend less on utilities

d) spend marginally more on housing, which i dispute, and my numbers suggest otherwise, but lets go with what you have

e) spend more on transportation? i suppose this would stem from a longer average commute, but in austin we have a absolutely fantastic and extremely extensive bus system that will take you anywhere in the city, so, point nullified

f) spend more on health care? well, i suppose you might somehow become more sick there? i dont know. either way, you are more likely to have a quality, high paying job in austin which is thus more likely to provide you with health coverage, thus nullifying this point as well.

so yes, i agree with your graphic (for the most part)

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

Here is something interesting. edit, how do you get it to appear in the post and not as attached? Do you have to upload it to a hosting site?

upload it to imageshack.us or another hosting site, and then use the "img" tags

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

Here is something interesting. edit, how do you get it to appear in the post and not as attached? Do you have to upload it to a hosting site?

yes. www.tinypic.com is my favorite for quick and easy

[AngelFuree]

I think the key thing here is the "luxury tax" (as stated by Screamin Emu or Jace, I forgot who) one must pay to live in a better city/area. I, personally, wouldn't pay the NYC "tax" as it's a little bit on the steep side, but go to California, you'll love it. In my case, I'll take this "tax" if it means better QOL.

In my opinion, those who don't like bigger cities are those who just can't take the social environment. I like going to parties and seeing new people, or going to restaurants and seeing new people. I like clubs. I like fun.
I like going to stores and not seeing people I know. When you go to Walmart in GFK, you know at least one person in each checkout lane. I like being able to shop without having to stumble w/ the same faces every single day.

[ZUKO]

I am so sick of buying my groceries at target. They give me a bajillon plastic bags that make it impossible to carry everything up to my dorm room. For how inflated the prices are, you would think they would be able to afford giving me a paper bag.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

I am so sick of buying my groceries at target. They give me a bajillon plastic bags that make it impossible to carry everything up to my dorm room. For how inflated the prices are, you would think they would be able to afford giving me a paper bag.

Is that a real number?! But, yeah... they do give out a lot, and so does Hugos! I swear the last time I went to Hugos I got a bag for nearly every item that I bought.

[Screaming_Emu]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

I am so sick of buying my groceries at target. They give me a bajillon plastic bags that make it impossible to carry everything up to my dorm room. For how inflated the prices are, you would think they would be able to afford giving me a paper bag.

yup, groceries here in MD are way way cheaper. That being said, now that there's a super walmart in town, that should drive hugos' and target's prices down.

[ZUKO]

I like to buy cold cuts at target but I am starting to think it is cheaper just to go to subway lol. I have the lady at the campus subway making me a 6 inch turkey sandwhich but puts on triple meat. I get like 18 pieces of turkey.

Its like 5 bucks a pound at target for turkey and I go through it very very fast. I spent like 50 bucks there yesturday and all I got was two things of milk, plastic spoons, plastic cups, three cans of soup and 4 pounds of cold cuts.

[JaceTheAce]

We all have our own necessities. For me, one necessity is the availability of fresh and affordable produce, well-stocked grocery stores with a good meat/deli/bakery - all non-existant here. Then, good restaurants with AFFORDABLE food. Again, non-existant here. Service at restaurants? Absolutely non-existant (except for Sanders...very good service). The problem here is that the culture of North Dakota allows service quality to suffer. Nobody complains or says anything if their server does not bring them water refills EVER, or if their meat came back well-done if they ordered rare. But since the "North Dakota Nice" or "MN Nice" overtakes their ability to speak up, nothing improves and the service remains complete SHEEIT. "Oh here ya go, here's your tip, thank yooouw, you did such a great job, donchya know!"...even though the server did not refill their drinks or completely ignored the table altogether.

Why can't I get cheap authentic Mexican food, Chinese food, Italian food, etc...oh wait it's because there is no demand for it...North Dakotans are used to eating the bland cuisine they grew up on...mac-n-cheese, potatoes, lufse, lutefisk, North Dakota style chili (there's a stark difference), bad produce, etc. Lack of variety of food and lack of food quality is the problem here. I tried the prime rib at Speedway 3 different times and every time I had a horrible-quality overcooked dry sitting-under-the-heat-lamp-for-hours slab of fatty meat. Same goes for Blue Moose...but I'll say that they USED to be good in 2004-2005.

Housing: Housing here is horrid. When I worked with a realtor to find a condo to buy I had a hard time finding a place. I looked at these "condos" that were newly built by a local company just 300 feet south of Simplot's factory. There's an identical looking building (same floorplans, etc) that is zoned as apartments and owned by the same company. So here's the scoop... a 1000 sq foot 2-bedroom 2-bath with NO central heating and air-conditioning... a stupid inefficient wall unit and base-board heaters...what are we in, the 1920's?!?!?!? Shoddy construction, poorly assembled cabinetry, POPCORN on the friggin ceiling (that was cool in the 1970's, not in 2006), and drywall seams showing everywhere. Price was $105,000 and with appreciation index at a continual 0-2% and negative at the time, selling it in less than 2 years is not enough to cover the realtor fees, capital gains tax, outrageously high Grand Forks specials fees, property tax, and interest expenses. All not good for buying real estate in Grand Forks. You basically have to live here at least 10 years in order to BREAK EVEN on the purchase of your house.

So... before anyone responds, here's a disclaimer: My needs may or may not be your needs. So, if you're from Hatton, ND and your needs are hunting, ice fishing, snowmobiling, drinking Busch beer excessively at bars, being an alcoholic, this place may be highly favorable. If these benefits outweigh the poor earning power that is horribly out of proportion to the high housing prices of GFK, then more power to ya!

I won't even type anymore because I'm basically preaching to the choir....and those who don't want to hear it will either get pissed (or just not read it at all, which would be the preferred thing to do)...so I'll just refrain from continuing.

Carry on...........

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

very cool!

ok so according to your site we will

a) earn more in austin

b) spend less on groceries

c) spend less on utilities

d) spend marginally more on housing, which i dispute, and my numbers suggest otherwise, but lets go with what you have

e) spend more on transportation? i suppose this would stem from a longer average commute, but in austin we have a absolutely fantastic and extremely extensive bus system that will take you anywhere in the city, so, point nullified

f) spend more on health care? well, i suppose you might somehow become more sick there? i dont know. either way, you are more likely to have a quality, high paying job in austin which is thus more likely to provide you with health coverage, thus nullifying this point as well.

so yes, i agree with your graphic (for the most part)

I love how you agree with what fits your story.

I know this for sure, rent is cheaper in Grand Forks when compared to Austin. But house buying, on the other hand is slightly cheaper in Austin. Houston you can get a great house for the same price in Grand Forks. Not sure why GF has expensive housing. I guess it's their way of driving out the younger generation.

Utilities is much more expensive in TX. Can I repeat that, much more. My boss has a 2500 sq foot house and he averages $350 a month (much higher in the summer, but that is about average). It's hard to have a bill that high in ND (even in the winter) I know what I'm paying now and it's a little bit more than Excel in GF, but much more when compared to NoDak. Legacy livers have the cheapest electric bills around.

One thing I've noticed, it's obvoius buildings here need less insulation. Single pane windows makes for more uncommanded air movement in/out of the airport. This is the main reason in my opinion electric bills are more (less insulation).

As for groceries, some are less in TX, some less in ND. Mainly, milk is much cheaper in ND. It's around $4 a gallon in Houston. It's good though.

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

We all have our own necessities. For me, one necessity is the availability of fresh and affordable produce, well-stocked grocery stores with a good meat/deli/bakery - all non-existant here. Then, good restaurants with AFFORDABLE food. Again, non-existant here. Service at restaurants? Absolutely non-existant (except for Sanders...very good service). The problem here is that the culture of North Dakota allows service quality to suffer. Nobody complains or says anything if their server does not bring them water refills EVER, or if their meat came back well-done if they ordered rare. But since the "North Dakota Nice" or "MN Nice" overtakes their ability to speak up, nothing improves and the service remains complete SHEEIT. "Oh here ya go, here's your tip, thank yooouw, you did such a great job, donchya know!"...even though the server did not refill their drinks or completely ignored the table altogether.

Why can't I get cheap authentic Mexican food, Chinese food, Italian food, etc...oh wait it's because there is no demand for it...North Dakotans are used to eating the bland cuisine they grew up on...mac-n-cheese, potatoes, lufse, lutefisk, North Dakota style chili (there's a stark difference), bad produce, etc. Lack of variety of food and lack of food quality is the problem here. I tried the prime rib at Speedway 3 different times and every time I had a horrible-quality overcooked dry sitting-under-the-heat-lamp-for-hours slab of fatty meat. Same goes for Blue Moose...but I'll say that they USED to be good in 2004-2005.

Housing: Housing here is horrid. When I worked with a realtor to find a condo to buy I had a hard time finding a place. I looked at these "condos" that were newly built by a local company just 300 feet south of Simplot's factory. There's an identical looking building (same floorplans, etc) that is zoned as apartments and owned by the same company. So here's the scoop... a 1000 sq foot 2-bedroom 2-bath with NO central heating and air-conditioning... a stupid inefficient wall unit and base-board heaters...what are we in, the 1920's?!?!?!? Shoddy construction, poorly assembled cabinetry, POPCORN on the friggin ceiling (that was cool in the 1970's, not in 2006), and drywall seams showing everywhere. Price was $105,000 and with appreciation index at a continual 0-2% and negative at the time, selling it in less than 2 years is not enough to cover the realtor fees, capital gains tax, outrageously high Grand Forks specials fees, property tax, and interest expenses. All not good for buying real estate in Grand Forks. You basically have to live here at least 10 years in order to BREAK EVEN on the purchase of your house.

So... before anyone responds, here's a disclaimer: My needs may or may not be your needs. So, if you're from Hatton, ND and your needs are hunting, ice fishing, snowmobiling, drinking Busch beer excessively at bars, being an alcoholic, this place may be highly favorable. If these benefits outweigh the poor earning power that is horribly out of proportion to the high housing prices of GFK, then more power to ya!

I won't even type anymore because I'm basically preaching to the choir....and those who don't want to hear it will either get pissed (or just not read it at all, which would be the preferred thing to do)...so I'll just refrain from continuing.

Carry on...........

FWIW, the resturant service in Fargo is unbelievable better than it is here. but you are right it is better elsewhere.

I was in Valencia, CA about 1 month ago and the service at this microbrew was about as good as in GFK, but the food was awesome, as was the beer. BJ's Resturant

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

FWIW, the resturant service in Fargo is unbelievable better than it is here. but you are right it is better elsewhere.

I was in Valencia, CA about 1 month ago and the service at this microbrew was about as good as in GFK, but the food was awesome, as was the beer. BJ's Resturant

I've been to BJ's once...very good food. Yes, I have noticed Fargo is much better than GFK in food service and food quality. Plus they have a Bennigan's (Montecristo sandwich...probably the worst healthy thing you can ever eat but tasty!)

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Plus they have a Bennigan's (Montecristo sandwich...probably the worst healthy thing you can ever eat but tasty!)

Oh god, I haven't had one of those since I started going to school here. I keep forgetting to hit that place up while I'm at home.

[BuickCFI]

our service at BJ's was bad. after sitting for 10 minutes w/o a server we were about to get up and leave. no one even said anything to us. after we ordered some drinks (5oz. samplers, 7 pack or something is what they called it) our service got a little better, but still not great. the steak they had was one of the best i have ever had at a resturant. montana steaks are the best though

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

our service at BJ's was bad. after sitting for 10 minutes w/o a server we were about to get up and leave. no one even said anything to us. after we ordered some drinks (5oz. samplers, 7 pack or something is what they called it) our service got a little better, but still not great. the steak they had was one of the best i have ever had at a resturant. montana steaks are the best though

That's not good about the service... if you ever head down to San Diego go to Karl Strauss Brewery and have the Red Trolley Ale... or just get their beer sampler. Very good food and GOOD beer.

[TonyC]

U-Haul rents from Grand Forks to Austin. Don't forget your umbrella.


http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...20/20rain.html















.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by TonyC

U-Haul rents from Grand Forks to Austin. Don't forget your umbrella.

http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...20/20rain.html

Excessive use of space with your little light gray dot you put after every post.

Anyway... at least it's rain and not snow/ice! (Except...driving in snow is most of the fun!)

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Excessive use of space with your little light gray dot you put after every post.

Anyway... at least it's rain and not snow/ice! (Except...driving in snow is most of the fun!)

Umm, did you notice the article was about the ice storm? (It's in the title, and the first sentence, and the second paragraph, . . .)










. <------ Not excessive.



























. <------- Excessive.