Rant

[ZUKO]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

if you are considering going the FBO route now, do it IMHO. i wish i had done it but by the time i was in multi i was locked in to the UND system

as far as finishing up your current flying by spring break @ UND, talk to your lead tell him your plans and you want to get done by then. they will find you an instructor who will be able to add you to their schedule and meet your goals. I am assuming you are finishing up your flying from the fall and most likely retaking the ground school so you should be giving priority for finishing. you are afterall a PAYING CUSTOMER

Yeah I am going to talk to my flight instructor after my flight tommorow so it will not be just like I am getting up and leaving. I am going to tell him what I want and if he can not deliver I will find someone new. As far as talking to my lead, I am not sure who that is. I know who my instructors lead is and I have a list of contact numbers they gave me in ground school. If you know of any instructors that could use another student, including your self, please pm me.

Yeah buick, I was debating over if I should transfer after this year to somewhere I could fly all year around. (Arizona? Cali?) I feel like I could move at a faster pace and get my ratings faster. I also feel like I could become a CFI much quicker and CFI while I finish up my degree and have a much higher total time. I would have no problems with flying 5 days a week.
The things that scares me about leaving is that it is a big step to make. 1. Finding a new college (U of A, ASU,) and then a part 61 FBO with the right instructor and getting settled. It seems like a big jump to make with some risk of not finding the right CFI/FBO.

As well as if I leave for an FBO, Will I have less of a well rounded education then I would if I stay at UND? Will I still learn about systems, physics and other things.

Its a big step. I am going to keep my options open. I also do not want to feel like leaving UND would be quitting. I am not a quitter. I would only leave if there was a significant upgrade in what I could accomplish.

[ZUKO]

Originally Posted by roundout

i will say flat out that i got 3 jobs because the hiring party was familiar with UND program and the quality of training there. i will also say that going to UND cost me a job because the chief pilot at a school in denver was an ERAU grad.

as a chief pilot myself, i've hired someone from a big academy and passed over quite a few CFIs of poor skill who trained part 61. ymmv.

That is a big issue with me. At UND, I know for sure that I am going to kept to high standards. Who knows about what FBO I would find. I was surfing the web last night and found some part 141 in tuscon that claimed they could get me such and such rating in XXX days.

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

That is a big issue with me. At UND, I know for sure that I am going to kept to high standards. Who knows about what FBO I would find. I was surfing the web last night and found some part 141 in tuscon that claimed they could get me such and such rating in XXX days.

you still need to be able to meet PTS standards

[roundout]

courses like that may get you through a checkride but won't make you a good pilot. we had a guy take a "crash course" PPL over the summer and passed the checkride no sweat. a couple days later he crashed one of our 150s on a nosewheel landing that took it out of service for a month and cost a couple grand to fix.

[ZUKO]

Originally Posted by roundout

courses like that may get you through a checkride but won't make you a good pilot. we had a guy take a "crash course" PPL over the summer and passed the checkride no sweat. a couple days later he crashed one of our 150s on a nosewheel landing that took it out of service for a month and cost a couple grand to fix.

How hard do you think it would be to find an FBO that would compare to the quality of education I would get at UND?

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

How hard do you think it would be to find an FBO that would compare to the quality of education I would get at UND?

quality IMHO is up to you. as long as you don't rush it and actually learn it not just for the checkride you would be fine.

i can guarantee you i learned more in my 50 first hours of dual given than i did in my entire education at UND, but that could apply to part 61 as well

[ZUKO]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

quality IMHO is up to you. as long as you don't rush it and actually learn it not just for the checkride you would be fine.

i can guarantee you i learned more in my 50 first hours of dual given than i did in my entire education at UND, but that could apply to part 61 as well

Did you feel comfortable flying around out of UND as a freshly minted private pilot? I am not sure if I will. I really want to take up my dad flying after I get my private, but I am not sure how comfortable I will be flying outside of UND. I have 10 hours of experience at two summer camps at ERAU where we flew 172s up and down the desert. But still, I feel like I will need a lot more training before I trust family members in my hands.

[airplanerik]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

That is a big issue with me. At UND, I know for sure that I am going to kept to high standards. Who knows about what FBO I would find. I was surfing the web last night and found some part 141 in tuscon that claimed they could get me such and such rating in XXX days.

Oh god, your starting to sound like somebody I know...
How about you just go to ATP and get everything (commercial, instrument, multi, CFI) done in 90 days after you finish up your private here???!!!11


and, btw...I don't know why you wouldn't feel comfortable flying outside of UND once you have completed your flying here. It's pretty much the same anywhere else...just not so flat and terrainless. A plane is a plane, and the procedures are all the same.

[ZUKO]

Originally Posted by airplanerik

Oh god, your starting to sound like somebody I know...
How about you just go to ATP and get everything (commercial, instrument, multi, CFI) done in 90 days after you finish up your private here???!!!11


and, btw...I don't know why you wouldn't feel comfortable flying outside of UND once you have completed your flying here. It's pretty much the same anywhere else...just not so flat and terrainless. A plane is a plane, and the procedures are all the same.

I am just trying to make the best decision for my future. If you are saying I sound like captainchris or what ever his name is, you are wrong. My first and foremost priority will be quality of training and what ever will make me the best pilot. Then comes pace.

I came on this board when I was deciding what to do originally under a different user name. And most advised me to not come to UND. I took the tour and sold my self on UND. I wanted a structured program like UND and liked the idea of getting a double major. I still like that about UND but I feel due to certain circumstances (Weather,Availability of Instructor, Poor ground school performance), I have not done enough flying.

I was not talking about after I completed all of my flying here, I was just talking about when I complete my private. My instructor was actually the one who got me thinking about this. He told me that he was never comfortable flying on his own after he got his private because statistically that is when you are most prone to incidents and accidents. He said it went away when he got much deeper into his training.

ATP is not an option period. It will be UND vs FBO for me. As it stands, I am going to get another instructor who can fly more, I am going to stay every summer in North Dakota to fly so I can move at a fast pace. If I can not get the amount of flying I want to do to pick up, I will consider leaving for an FBO while the option still exists.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

i can guarantee you i learned more in my 50 first hours of dual given than i did in my entire education at UND, but that could apply to part 61 as well

Wait a minute… I highly doubt that the education at UND had anything to do with it. I would bet this “CFI learning curve” is experienced because you’re now teaching someone else this stuff. What worked for you might not (and sometimes will not) work for someone else’s learning style. What happens then? Well, you end up learning a whole lot of stuff from your students (also because you know you can’t BS [or I should say shouldn’t] BS a student information. No doubt changing seats/places/roles you’ll learn a lot… but, I really doubt it's because of UND’s education.

:::: I promise my UND “hat” is off, and I’m not just blowing smoke due to my affiliation with the school ::::

I really believe no matter where you received your instruction (or where you instruct) new CFI’s will experience this.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

Did you feel comfortable flying around out of UND as a freshly minted private pilot? I am not sure if I will. I really want to take up my dad flying after I get my private, but I am not sure how comfortable I will be flying outside of UND. I have 10 hours of experience at two summer camps at ERAU where we flew 172s up and down the desert. But still, I feel like I will need a lot more training before I trust family members in my hands.

When it really comes down to it, I think the flying is pretty much the same. What changes is the process, if that make sense. I mean, you don’t go to an FBO (initially) fill out a slip and get handed an airplane status book with the keys in it. You’ll have some sort of check out in a different airplane than you’re used to, and possibly fly around an area that you’re not entirely familiar with. Being “comfortable” in doing this will come with experience.

If you were to go to GFK flight support and rent an airplane (most likely the cadet) you’ll be flying a similar airplane to what you’re flying in now, and you’ll be in the same environment you’re used to (meaning that you’re used to the landmarks as seen from the air, or the lack thereof here ). You could also find some place that rents similar aircraft, and during the checkout really become familiar with the area from the air. (At least then you’re not having to get used to an entirely different airplane at the same time). I know that the very first time I went flying outside of Grand Forks with the family I wanted to take the plane up by myself for a bit so that I was “comfortable.” I came back and picked the fam up, and away we went.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

(Weather,Availability of Instructor, Poor ground school performance), I have not done enough flying.

Sounds like a lot could change here if you really put your foot down…

Availability of instructor – There’s more than one instructor here at the school

Poor ground school performance – Well, that’s really only up to you

And the weather… There’s going to be days you’ll weather a flight no matter where you are. And up here it builds character, right?!

[ZUKO]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Sounds like a lot could change here if you really put your foot down…

Availability of instructor – There’s more than one instructor here at the school

Poor ground school performance – Well, that’s really only up to you

And the weather… There’s going to be days you’ll weather a flight no matter where you are. And up here it builds character, right?!

I agree. I feel like I have grown up a lot since being up here. Last semester was a disaster for me. I failed my first four block exams and passed the last four exams. Barely having a high enough grade to take the final. I studied a ton the night before and got little sleep. I ended up failing the final by 1 point getting a 75. I missed things that I covered, and confused the hell out of myself. I would be embarrased to post some a couple of the basic questions I missed. Sleep was definitely a factor among other things. I am also still very much learning how to learn...

I am just working as hard as I can after what happened last semester. And I just want the opportunity to get up there to do well. I want to match my efforts that I am making on the ground to do well in the air.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

I agree. I feel like I have grown up a lot since being up here. Last semester was a disaster for me. I failed my first four block exams and passed the last four exams. Barely having a high enough grade to take the final. I studied a ton the night before and got little sleep. I ended up failing the final by 1 point getting a 75. I missed things that I covered, and confused the hell out of myself. I would be embarrased to post some a couple of the basic questions I missed. Sleep was definitely a factor among other things. I am also still very much learning how to learn...

I am just working as hard as I can after what happened last semester. And I just want the opportunity to get up there to do well. I want to match my efforts that I am making on the ground to do well in the air.

Sounds like you are taking good steps in improvement! Keep it up.

[Dugie8]

ZUKO

Don't be afraid to ask for help. Your CFI is doing what he/she thinks is the best. Trying to knock out some other students (so they aren't behind) so he/she can concentrate with you. The haters on here will just chalk that up to poor customer service, when in fact it is the prime example of how UND goes above and beyond. If you really feel you are better off with a new instructor, tell your current one and then BOTH of you go to BLAC and get a new one, no harm, no foul.

Having problems in ground school, ask here, go to the CFI tutoring, buddy up, etc. The resources are endless. Nobody can fix the problem if you don't tell them about it, and no one is going to come down on you for having a problem.

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Wait a minute… I highly doubt that the education at UND had anything to do with it. I would bet this “CFI learning curve” is experienced because you’re now teaching someone else this stuff. What worked for you might not (and sometimes will not) work for someone else’s learning style. What happens then? Well, you end up learning a whole lot of stuff from your students (also because you know you can’t BS [or I should say shouldn’t] BS a student information. No doubt changing seats/places/roles you’ll learn a lot… but, I really doubt it's because of UND’s education.

:::: I promise my UND “hat” is off, and I’m not just blowing smoke due to my affiliation with the school ::::

I really believe no matter where you received your instruction (or where you instruct) new CFI’s will experience this.

actually some of it was due to procedures flying outside of UND, but a lot of it is from the instructing and just BS'ing with other instructors about their experiences. you can do this, try that, etc etc

things i have learned away from UND:
1. some places have no structure and it is a little scary to take their airplanes due to lack of any type of strict checkout procedures.
2. some places are extremely strict for checkouts and a UND stage check was almost easier
3. how to fuel an airplane (champ at CKN)
4. how to pull an airplane out of a hanger(CKN again)
there are a lot more, but i won't list them

at the end of the day, an airplane is an airplane, 100LL is 100LL, a C172 is slightly different than a PA28, but not too much, yadda yadda

and i don't regret learning to fly at UND, just the way i went about it, money spent, stage check system, lack of some of the experience you learn elsewhere. granted i am not in aviation to get that right seat in a jet with 200+ people behind me. i am in aviation for the love of it and am willing to fly just about anything as long as it is safe and will pay the bills

[ZUKO]

Thanks guys...

I am waiting for ground school to start really. Foltz took us on a tour of the maintance on friday so we really haven't started up. I want nothing lower then an A in that class.

And I am going to talk to my instructor tommorow. I just want to feel like I am making progress in the air.

I have been studying for my flight. I took a sectional and cut out the area where the practice areas are and highlighted them. I went through the checklist trainer and the emergency trainer a couple times, stan manual for set ups for manuevers, I did about a third of the stage 14 review online, and now I am going through the worksheet for lesson 13. After I finish the worksheet, I am going to go over Vspeeds and stan manual some more.

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by ZUKO

Thanks guys...

I am waiting for ground school to start really. Foltz took us on a tour of the maintance on friday so we really haven't started up. I want nothing lower then an A in that class.

And I am going to talk to my instructor tommorow. I just want to feel like I am making progress in the air.

I have been studying for my flight. I took a sectional and cut out the area where the practice areas are and highlighted them. I went through the checklist trainer and the emergency trainer a couple times, stan manual for set ups for manuevers, I did about a third of the stage 14 review online, and now I am going through the worksheet for lesson 13. After I finish the worksheet, I am going to go over Vspeeds and stan manual some more.

chair fly, chair fly, chair fly. do it, it really works

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

ZUKO
Don't be afraid to ask for help. Your CFI is doing what he/she thinks is the best. Trying to knock out some other students (so they aren't behind) so he/she can concentrate with you. The haters on here will just chalk that up to poor customer service, when in fact it is the prime example of how UND goes above and beyond.

I made sure that my finish ups this semester got taken care of. If I couldn’t fly with them, I made sure that I found a CFI that could (all they really needed was a review flight or two) both left for break prior to completing their final stage check.

I’m not so sure it’s a UND thing, but more of the way a CFI is looking out for his/her students’ best interests. Assuming, of course, that this is the intent of the instructor...

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

I made sure that my finish ups this semester got taken care of. If I couldn’t fly with them, I made sure that I found a CFI that could (all they really needed was a review flight or two) both left for break prior to completing their final stage check.

I’m not so sure it’s a UND thing, but more of the way a CFI is looking out for his/her students’ best interests. Assuming, of course, that this is the intent of the instructor...

you sound like one of the better ones over there. i was always stuck with the guys who pretty much just dropped me once the semester ended and the new one began. they had no time for me anymore or just didn't want to do anything they could to help me out. left a pretty sour taste in my mouth as i was always last on the list of priorities

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

actually some of it was due to procedures flying outside of UND, but a lot of it is from the instructing and just BS'ing with other instructors about their experiences. you can do this, try that, etc etc

things i have learned away from UND:
1. some places have no structure and it is a little scary to take their airplanes due to lack of any type of strict checkout procedures.
2. some places are extremely strict for checkouts and a UND stage check was almost easier
3. how to fuel an airplane (champ at CKN)
4. how to pull an airplane out of a hanger(CKN again)
there are a lot more, but i won't list them

at the end of the day, an airplane is an airplane, 100LL is 100LL, a C172 is slightly different than a PA28, but not too much, yadda yadda

and i don't regret learning to fly at UND, just the way i went about it, money spent, stage check system, lack of some of the experience you learn elsewhere. granted i am not in aviation to get that right seat in a jet with 200+ people behind me. i am in aviation for the love of it and am willing to fly just about anything as long as it is safe and will pay the bills

Oh, no doubt! You’ll learn with experience, and the value of that is priceless. UND won’t teach you everything, but neither will any place. That experience is something that we can pass down through our teaching as a CFI to our students. I really feel that what I’ve learned elsewhere in combination with what I’ve learned here at UND makes instruction easier and more vivid/exciting for students as I can share stories/experiences/etc… etc… on a daily basis.

[BuickCFI]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Oh, no doubt! You’ll learn with experience, and the value of that is priceless. UND won’t teach you everything, but neither will any place. That experience is something that we can pass down through our teaching as a CFI to our students. I really feel that what I’ve learned elsewhere in combination with what I’ve learned here at UND makes instruction easier and more vivid/exciting for students as I can share stories/experiences/etc… etc… on a daily basis.

i was also never lucky enough to have an instructor who had been away from the bubble. so the only experiences they could teach me were of what they had done at UND. inbreeding is what i call it

but i do go out and use the procedures, etc i learned at und when i fly as it pertains to flying the actual aircraft. checklists and flows are wonderful, hated them at first but now it is just easy

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

i was also never lucky enough to have an instructor who had been away from the bubble. so the only experiences they could teach me were of what they had done at UND. inbreeding is what i call it

but i do go out and use the procedures, etc i learned at und when i fly as it pertains to flying the actual aircraft. checklists and flows are wonderful, hated them at first but now it is just easy

Sucks when you have a CFI instructor like this too. Mine is just like me, flown around Chicago A LOT. He did a good job of balancing part 61 and 141 stuff when teaching me how to instruct. One of my other friends had an instructor that's only flown around here. I think about all my friend knows how to do is teach at UND. We'll see if he passes the checkride with that.

I know that is just one instructor that's never left the area, so that is a pretty strong generalization by me. It seems though that you're much more rounded and flexible if you get experiance outside of here. MSP doesn't count as busy airspace, flying over deluth doesnt count as flying over terrain , flying over the lakes in MN doesn't count as flying for an extended time over water(lake superior an exception), ect...

Flying here gives you excellent experiance flying into small remote airports and dealing with random weather events, especially in the summer, but you'd get better experiance flying in other parts of the country with other things.

[Snickersnwa]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

MSP doesn't count as busy airspace

Take an airplane up flying down there with TIS or ADSB on a nice Friday evening or Sunday afternoon… Or when MSP has their pushes…

Is MSP the busiest place compared to ORD or ATL? Probably not… but I wouldn’t say that it’s not a busy area.

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by Snickersnwa

Take an airplane up flying down there with TIS or ADSB on a nice Friday evening or Sunday afternoon… Or when MSP has their pushes…

Is MSP the busiest place compared to ORD or ATL? Probably not… but I wouldn’t say that it’s not a busy area.

I wasn't totally serious on that point. Although, since it is just the one airport, it is pretty easy to fly around there even when it's busy.