ready for g-forks

[andrew]

i'm almost on my way.. my flight lands sometime around 4pm on friday, so is there a bus or some other method of public transportation to take to the campus? also i have two 50lb. boxes of junk waiting in Wilkerson i believe, whats that easiest way to get them to Dakota hall?

[TXaviator]

well you can take a cab to campus and expect to spend about 20 bucks

or

walk out the front door, then walk about 200 yards due east (to your left as you exit) and chill in front of the UND aviation buildings for a while and catch the shuttle van for free.

as for the boxes, make friends with someone who has a car asap.

[JaceTheAce]

Andrew... I doubt the aviation shuttle runs at this time of the year from the airport to campus. If you need a ride from the airport (and the boxes) let me know. I shouldn't be too busy on Friday.

[andrew]

Jace if you have nothing else planned, a ride would be great. my plane gets in at like 3:50 (hopefully no delays). but yeah i would definately appreciate some help.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by andrew

Jace if you have nothing else planned, a ride would be great. my plane gets in at like 3:50 (hopefully no delays). but yeah i would definately appreciate some help.

Sure no prob... I'll PM you my cell # if you get delayed on a connecting flight.

[Screaming_Emu]

the shuttle did run all summer but it isn't thurs and fri because there shouldn't be anyone flying since the instructors have meetings and such.

[roundout]

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

the shuttle did run all summer but it isn't thurs and fri because there shouldn't be anyone flying since the instructors have meetings and such.

q: why does a properly-qualified private pilot need an instructor to fly at UND?
a: because it's UND!

offense to nobody, really. just somethign that always made me laugh about UND - a flight school that won't rent a plane to a student.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by roundout

q: why does a properly-qualified private pilot need an instructor to fly at UND?
a: because it's UND!

offense to nobody, really. just somethign that always made me laugh about UND - a flight school that won't rent a plane to a student.

Well it is not because UND doesn't trust the students, it is an insurance thing and an availability thing. Sure it is easy to sit around and say, well no one is flying today, I should be able to rent an airplane. Doesn't work that way. I would be really pissed off, if a student and I decided to go fly on a slow day only to find no airplanes available because everyone is out getting the 100 dollar hamburger (a little extreme, but you get the idea).

Go on over to GFK flight support if you must rent an airplane for some pleasure flying. Personnaly, I don't know how you guys have the drive to wanna fly for fun after flying all week in training, I was sick of an airplane by Saturday as a student.

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

Well it is not because UND doesn't trust the students, it is an insurance thing and an availability thing. Sure it is easy to sit around and say, well no one is flying today, I should be able to rent an airplane. Doesn't work that way. I would be really pissed off, if a student and I decided to go fly on a slow day only to find no airplanes available because everyone is out getting the 100 dollar hamburger (a little extreme, but you get the idea).

Go on over to GFK flight support if you must rent an airplane for some pleasure flying. Personnaly, I don't know how you guys have the drive to wanna fly for fun after flying all week in training, I was sick of an airplane by Saturday as a student.

Especially when trying to do X-countries. Heck, I get really irritated when lots of people would schedule up those long 250 mile x-countries multiple days of the week just in case the weather was bad. Im talking more than two days taken up. Or when people schedule stuff and then go drink the night before and cancel the next day. I can only imagine how frustrating it would be if it were because someone wanted to go joy riding.

Although, you can redo those solos to the practice area about as much as you want anyway, crosscountries even. I never do but it's my impretion that you can.

[eglplt]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

Well it is not because UND doesn't trust the students, it is an insurance thing and an availability thing. Sure it is easy to sit around and say, well no one is flying today, I should be able to rent an airplane. Doesn't work that way. I would be really pissed off, if a student and I decided to go fly on a slow day only to find no airplanes available because everyone is out getting the 100 dollar hamburger (a little extreme, but you get the idea).

To expand on this even further, if everyone was allowed to rent the a/c for personal use, how long would it take to burn up the time in between inspections? UND would have airplanes in inspection all the time if people were allowed to do this. The semester is budgeted for so many hours on each fleet of aircraft, and if you start allowing people to personal use airplanes the budget would be out the window. This is the same reason they don't like to let you use the Arrow's for 221 or 222. They need the allotted time for 323 and 414.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by eglplt

To expand on this even further, if everyone was allowed to rent the a/c for personal use, how long would it take to burn up the time in between inspections? UND would have airplanes in inspection all the time if people were allowed to do this. The semester is budgeted for so many hours on each fleet of aircraft, and if you start allowing people to personal use airplanes the budget would be out the window. This is the same reason they don't like to let you use the Arrow's for 221 or 222. They need the allotted time for 323 and 414.

If UND allowed personal use of aircraft to students and if they adjust their business model accordingly, their profits should increase. It wouldn't be a matter of airplanes going through inspection all the time or airplanes not being available, it will be a matter of UND buying more airplanes to avoid this. People wouldn't and shouldn't notice a difference in airplane availability. The thing people should notice is an increase in overall hourly rates - I'm sure insurance rates would shoot through the roof.

Afterall, UND Aerospace is a business/corporation/FBO/flight school/etc, not a university. They are there to provide a service to customers, not students.

According to Dana Siewert, not allowing personal use of aircraft is a limitation set by the insurance company. He said it's also a little bit of not being able to trust young 18 year old private students who will inherently want to do things in an airplane that will endanger their lives and other's lives. I really don't blame UND for not allowing it. Just imagine all the accidents we'd be having if we allowed it.

[eglplt]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

If UND allowed personal use of aircraft to students and if they adjust their business model accordingly, their profits should increase. It wouldn't be a matter of airplanes going through inspection all the time or airplanes not being available, it will be a matter of UND buying more airplanes to avoid this. People wouldn't and shouldn't notice a difference in airplane availability. The thing people should notice is an increase in overall hourly rates - I'm sure insurance rates would shoot through the roof.

I disagree! How do you propose they increase the budget to acquire more airplanes based solely on the speculation that a few people might want to personally rent the airplane? They have calculated the number of flight hours they need on a semester by semester basis. This number then translates into "x" number of required aircraft taking into account time down for mx. The name of the game is to get the job done with the least number of aircraft possible.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by eglplt

I disagree! How do you propose they increase the budget to acquire more airplanes based solely on the speculation that a few people might want to personally rent the airplane? They have calculated the number of flight hours they need on a semester by semester basis. This number then translates into "x" number of required aircraft taking into account time down for mx. The name of the game is to get the job done with the least number of aircraft possible.

You're right about getting the job done with the least amount of aircraft, but if (the keyword is IF, because we don't know if there even is a demand for it) there is demand for personal use of aircraft, they will (only if they allowed it) purchase more aircraft and the right amount of aircraft that will bring the highest profits.

They wouldn't "increase" the budget to acquire more aircraft - I didn't say that. I'm just say flight costs per hour would probably increase because of the higher insurance rates... but then again maybe they'll go down due to the laws of economies of scale.

[eglplt]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

They wouldn't "increase" the budget to acquire more aircraft - I didn't say that. I'm just say flight costs per hour would probably increase because of the higher insurance rates... but then again maybe they'll go down due to the laws of economies of scale.

I agree with you absolutely with this aspect. No doubt the hourly cost would increase due to higher insurance premiums. I also believe that supply and demand would dictate this situation. I think the demand would decrease due to the higher cost of renting the airplane for personal use. It might be a situation where it would then be cheaper to rent from GFK Flight Support or even CKN for that matter.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by eglplt

I agree with you absolutely with this aspect. No doubt the hourly cost would increase due to higher insurance premiums. I also believe that supply and demand would dictate this situation. I think the demand would decrease due to the higher cost of renting the airplane for personal use. It might be a situation where it would then be cheaper to rent from GFK Flight Support or even CKN for that matter.

It will always be cheaper where I rent now............ $10/hr dry rate at GFK for a 1978 Cessna 172.

[Dugie8]

Jace
I think we can easily see what the demand for renting an airplane is. Look at GFK Flight Support and how often their airplanes, a couple of which are old UND birds, are rented. That alone speaks for itself.

You hit the nail on the head, UND is a business, and a good business does what it can to keep costs low, and UND is doing that. UND however, is not an FBO, it is part of the university system and is more of an instructional facility, much like a computer lab, than it is an FBO or repair station.

You really have your fellow classmates to thank for the higher insurance rates. People have pulled some bonehead manuevers in UND airplanes in the last decade alone, I wouldn't trust some of those yahoos with a potato gun!

[eglplt]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

People have pulled some bonehead manuevers in UND airplanes in the last decade alone, I wouldn't trust some of those yahoos with a potato gun!

Yes, like the two bonehead instructors who took 3255U into Bozeman, MT in a blizzard and got stuck! How about the two bonehead instructors who set sail for MDW in 3255U with 100+ knot headwinds and ended up turning around in MSP! Are those the ones you are talking about?

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

It will always be cheaper where I rent now............ $10/hr dry rate at GFK for a 1978 Cessna 172.

dude, where's that? lets go joyriding.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by eglplt

Yes, like the two bonehead instructors who took 3255U into Bozeman, MT in a blizzard and got stuck! How about the two bonehead instructors who set sail for MDW in 3255U with 100+ knot headwinds and ended up turning around in MSP! Are those the ones you are talking about?

I was a pax on both of those flights!

Actually the MDW trip would have worked if wonderstudent hadn't smoked a tire in FAR!

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

dude, where's that? lets go joyriding.

I'll let you know if you're interested... The "catch" is (just like any other flying club) is you have to pay $48 a month for dues. We're trying to get 2 more slots filled (I am not sure why there is a limit but I am assuming this is because of the insurance company limits the amount of insured flying club members) in order to get the monthly rate down to $40. The more people who fly it, the cheaper the overall cost is.

But in the end, flying this 172 for about $35-40 WET per hour (after you factor in what you pay for gas) is dirt cheap. Just think if you have 4 people go with you to a trip to Minneapolis, it's $9-10 per hour AFTER you pay for the rental and gas! That would be about the same as driving a car.

[TXaviator]

#### i need to win the god damned lottery. or find a job with respectable income (LOL..in grand forks??? HAHAHAH)

[Bignellyxx]

From what i have heard once upon a time a long time ago UND had a flying club that allowed this. That club was apparently dropped because of a lack of student participation and people who would want to run it. I'm not sure if this could happen again but the rental rates on a Warrior would probably be over $100 an hour