Instrument Approach Checklists

JaceTheAce · March 16th, 2006, 23:39

Now that I've had a chance to fly with two different flight instructors for my 222 course, I learned some extra valuable things from the new guy that I didn't learn before. I guess we all have different ways of teaching... but I have questions on instrument approaches. There are a few acronyms out there to help keep you ahead of the plane at all times. One of them is the 5 T's (Time, Twist, Turn, Throttle, Talk), the "TITS" checklist...Tune, Identify, Test if ADF, Switch VLOC/GPS... then on the final approach fix I learned "TUPL", pronounced as it is spelled...Throttle, Undercarriage, Power/Prop, Lights on Airfield.

What do you guys recommend in always staying ahead of the plane on an instrument approach? I was only taught the 5 T's and the latter two that I mentioned I never heard of. All the procedures are finally starting to sink in for me, slowly but surely. The sequence of events that happen on an instrument approach were so new to me that I felt very lost...until I just finally started to get it.

JEP · March 16th, 2006, 23:58

Not sure if this will help or not, but it is a sheet that I made up for my ifr flights. It thelps me to keep track and stay ahead of everything.

http://www.chaska.net/~jperrone/flyi..._selfbrief.xls

JaceTheAce · March 17th, 2006, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEP

Not sure if this will help or not, but it is a sheet that I made up for my ifr flights. It thelps me to keep track and stay ahead of everything.

http://www.chaska.net/~jperrone/flying/ifr_selfbrief.xls

Hey that's a great sheet to use! Thanks for sending me the link... by the end of an instrument flight I have a sheet of paper that is full of random numbers from copying things down. This will help me get more organized in the cockpit.

JEP · March 17th, 2006, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Hey that's a great sheet to use! Thanks for sending me the link... by the end of an instrument flight I have a sheet of paper that is full of random numbers from copying things down. This will help me get more organized in the cockpit.

No problem. If you have any questions just shoot me a pm. I was having the same problem with all the different numbers that I took all the info and made the sheet. It really helped me to stay organized.

fish314 · March 17th, 2006, 00:55

Shoot, there's a ton of those acronyms. In radar pattern: NORMS...Navaids, Ops check, Review the approach plate, coordinate missed approach or climbout, Speeds (slow to configure)

On base for an ILS or LOC: LIDS... Localizer frequency, Inbound course, DME channel, Speeds

Turning inbound on holding, CAT: Inbound COURSE, Altimeter setting (if you were descending before the fix, and passed 180), check TURN DIRECTION

There's about a million of them... about 5 million of them if you include all of the ones that are airplane specific

UAL747400 · March 17th, 2006, 02:13

One thing I also recommend is getting a consistant pattern going for how you do your approach briefings. I was never really "taught" a specific way to go about doing it AND retaining the info I just talked about. I swear like half the course I was doing it a different way on every approach.

I dont remember any of the accronyms for this, heck I never used any. I'd definetly have your instructor practice with you on the ground though. I wasnt really hurt by not doing it, but at the end of every flight I was dead tired. It took up to the final stage check before I felt that I was ahead the entire time and completely comfortable and didnt have to take a nap after the flight.

You and your instructor file a plan for every flight right? I had one sub for my instructor that didnt have me do that. Its WAY to easy to do it VFR and didnt really get anything out of that particular lesson. Talking to ATC constantly makes it that much harder. Getting proficient at flying and talking helps a ton.

mastermags · March 17th, 2006, 12:22

I use this acronym for setting up a hold:

NIHEW

navaids (and radials), ID, headings to be flown, entry, wind

Dugie8 · March 17th, 2006, 13:03

Guys, guys guys, and gals

Don't over complicate this. Take all the acronymns, cheats sheets and stupid pet tricks and throw it out the window. UNDERSTAND what it is you are doing, setup, brief, fly, IN THAT ORDER. Checklists, ALL done before IAF, be it vectors or full procedure. Absolutely no config changes after the FAF!!! For the complex airplanes, gear down at 2 miles from the FAF or 1 dot low on the GS, flaps just before the FAF/GS intercept. For non FAF approaches, configure before turning inbound, either before turning outbound on the PT or on the last 180 degree turn inbound of the PT (icing more than anything will dictate that). It is ok to leave the props at 2200 or 2500, whatever cruise setting you are using, push the props up with the throttles for a missed, despite what WIND and others say!

DO NOT BRIEF HOW YOU WILL FLY THE APPROACH, that should be standard. Brief the approach, navaid, altitudes, course(s), MAP, MSA, runway length, width, lighting (approach lighting specifically) and holding entry. Have that heading for your hold entry figured out well before starting the approach.

Above all else, monitor your progress, do not follow a glideslope into the ground just because it is centered. Easy checkpoints are the published glide slope intercept altitude (GSIA), 6 miles = 1800 feet AGL (3 degree slope) and 3 miles = 900 feet AGL. These are not callouts just mental crosschecks.

Trust me, get as comfortable as quickly as you can flying approaches by just setting up, briefing and flying. Don't lean on altitude alerters, acronyms, and cheat sheets.

eglplt · March 17th, 2006, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dugie8

Guys, guys guys, and gals

Don't over complicate this. Take all the acronymns, cheats sheets and stupid pet tricks and throw it out the window. UNDERSTAND what it is you are doing, setup, brief, fly, IN THAT ORDER. Checklists, ALL done before IAF, be it vectors or full procedure. Absolutely no config changes after the FAF!!! For the complex airplanes, gear down at 2 miles from the FAF or 1 dot low on the GS, flaps just before the FAF/GS intercept. For non FAF approaches, configure before turning inbound, either before turning outbound on the PT or on the last 180 degree turn inbound of the PT (icing more than anything will dictate that). It is ok to leave the props at 2200 or 2500, whatever cruise setting you are using, push the props up with the throttles for a missed, despite what WIND and others say!

DO NOT BRIEF HOW YOU WILL FLY THE APPROACH, that should be standard. Brief the approach, navaid, altitudes, course(s), MAP, MSA, runway length, width, lighting (approach lighting specifically) and holding entry. Have that heading for your hold entry figured out well before starting the approach.

Above all else, monitor your progress, do not follow a glideslope into the ground just because it is centered. Easy checkpoints are the published glide slope intercept altitude (GSIA), 6 miles = 1800 feet AGL (3 degree slope) and 3 miles = 900 feet AGL. These are not callouts just mental crosschecks.

Trust me, get as comfortable as quickly as you can flying approaches by just setting up, briefing and flying. Don't lean on altitude alerters, acronyms, and cheat sheets.

That is all fine and dandy, but it tells me that you haven't flown anything turbine into complex and busy airspace have you? These guys are just learning and using the acronyms as a crutch until they get more experience and have a "flow" down. You bring up some valid points, but they are only valid after the basics have been mastered. In the case of most of these people the basics are in the process of being mastered!

CRJDriver · March 17th, 2006, 15:03

I agree with Dougie8! Keep it simple. Set-up the approach, then brief (Field Elevation, Type of App., NAV Frequency, Course, Glideslope Int./FAF Alt., Minimums and Missed Appraoch Procedure). Period. Then fly the fickin' plane.

SteveC · March 17th, 2006, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by eglplt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugie8

...

...but it tells me that you haven't flown anything turbine into complex and busy airspace have you?

I'm betting that is an incorrect statement.

Any takers?

JaceTheAce · March 17th, 2006, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by eglplt

That is all fine and dandy, but it tells me that you haven't flown anything turbine into complex and busy airspace have you? These guys are just learning and using the acronyms as a crutch until they get more experience and have a "flow" down. You bring up some valid points, but they are only valid after the basics have been mastered. In the case of most of these people the basics are in the process of being mastered!

As in my situation.

After learning these acronyms, I found myself to be more ahead of the plane as learning the proper procedures for setup before were just not sinking in. I normally don't use acronyms in flying and prefer just "doing" the procedure, but for now it really helps me visualize what goes next.

eglplt · March 17th, 2006, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

I'm betting that is an incorrect statement.

Any takers?

Yeah, I just figured out who he is! It isn't good when you take a potshot at one of your buddies is it! I am sure my phone will ring when he reads my post, good thing I just talked to him last night.

Dugie8 · March 17th, 2006, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by eglplt

Yeah, I just figured out who he is! It isn't good when you take a potshot at one of your buddies is it! I am sure my phone will ring when he reads my post, good thing I just talked to him last night.

Thats right biatch, KNOW YOUR ROLE! When your airplanes MGTOW equals my fuel load, we can talk!

eglplt, has a very good point, it is a case by case basis, whatever you need to do to learn it and become comfortable. Just don't bog yourself down with "tricks". Instrument flying is an unatural thing, the human body is not designed (ok evolved) for flight, take out a horizon and, as they say in cali, WE BE FUCCKEED! That being said, I have not flown with a single person (part 121) that uses the five Ts, or any other trick, they/we simply do it.

eglplt · March 18th, 2006, 11:23

[quote=Dugie8]Thats right biatch, KNOW YOUR ROLE! When your airplanes MGTOW equals my fuel load, we can talk!

I don't even think my MGTOW evens weighs that much and we have some of the heaviest 400's in the world! How is the La Posada?

Dugie8 · March 18th, 2006, 23:29

[quote=eglplt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dugie8

Thats right biatch, KNOW YOUR ROLE! When your airplanes MGTOW equals my fuel load, we can talk!

I don't even think my MGTOW evens weighs that much and we have some of the heaviest 400's in the world! How is the La Posada?

La Posada is still the same. On a good note, I have more Vodka and Gin than I know what to do with

March 16th, 2006, 23:39	#1
JaceTheAce Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego Posts: 7,624	Instrument Approach Checklists Now that I've had a chance to fly with two different flight instructors for my 222 course, I learned some extra valuable things from the new guy that I didn't learn before. I guess we all have different ways of teaching... but I have questions on instrument approaches. There are a few acronyms out there to help keep you ahead of the plane at all times. One of them is the 5 T's (Time, Twist, Turn, Throttle, Talk), the "TITS" checklist...Tune, Identify, Test if ADF, Switch VLOC/GPS... then on the final approach fix I learned "TUPL", pronounced as it is spelled...Throttle, Undercarriage, Power/Prop, Lights on Airfield. What do you guys recommend in always staying ahead of the plane on an instrument approach? I was only taught the 5 T's and the latter two that I mentioned I never heard of. All the procedures are finally starting to sink in for me, slowly but surely. The sequence of events that happen on an instrument approach were so new to me that I felt very lost...until I just finally started to get it. __________________ "Time spent flying is not deducted from one's lifespan."

March 16th, 2006, 23:58	#2
JEP Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN (KFCM) (KMSP) Posts: 11,319 Blog Entries: 1	Not sure if this will help or not, but it is a sheet that I made up for my ifr flights. It thelps me to keep track and stay ahead of everything. http://www.chaska.net/~jperrone/flyi..._selfbrief.xls __________________ : : : “One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching.”

March 17th, 2006, 00:55	#5
fish314 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: (CBM) Columbus AFB, MS Posts: 1,321	Shoot, there's a ton of those acronyms. In radar pattern: NORMS...Navaids, Ops check, Review the approach plate, coordinate missed approach or climbout, Speeds (slow to configure) On base for an ILS or LOC: LIDS... Localizer frequency, Inbound course, DME channel, Speeds Turning inbound on holding, CAT: Inbound COURSE, Altimeter setting (if you were descending before the fix, and passed 180), check TURN DIRECTION There's about a million of them... about 5 million of them if you include all of the ones that are airplane specific __________________ Dude, what are you trying to do? Land the airplane or adjust the field elevation?

March 17th, 2006, 02:13	#6
UAL747400 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Grand Forks, ND (UND)/ Davenport, IA Posts: 2,204	One thing I also recommend is getting a consistant pattern going for how you do your approach briefings. I was never really "taught" a specific way to go about doing it AND retaining the info I just talked about. I swear like half the course I was doing it a different way on every approach. I dont remember any of the accronyms for this, heck I never used any. I'd definetly have your instructor practice with you on the ground though. I wasnt really hurt by not doing it, but at the end of every flight I was dead tired. It took up to the final stage check before I felt that I was ahead the entire time and completely comfortable and didnt have to take a nap after the flight. You and your instructor file a plan for every flight right? I had one sub for my instructor that didnt have me do that. Its WAY to easy to do it VFR and didnt really get anything out of that particular lesson. Talking to ATC constantly makes it that much harder. Getting proficient at flying and talking helps a ton. __________________

March 17th, 2006, 12:22	#7
mastermags Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 1,311	I use this acronym for setting up a hold: NIHEW navaids (and radials), ID, headings to be flown, entry, wind __________________ http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mastermags2/ If you are racist, I will invade you with the North. CFI, CFII, MEI, CRJ-700 FO, humanitarian

March 17th, 2006, 13:03	#8
Dugie8 Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: KRST Posts: 1,819	Guys, guys guys, and gals Don't over complicate this. Take all the acronymns, cheats sheets and stupid pet tricks and throw it out the window. UNDERSTAND what it is you are doing, setup, brief, fly, IN THAT ORDER. Checklists, ALL done before IAF, be it vectors or full procedure. Absolutely no config changes after the FAF!!! For the complex airplanes, gear down at 2 miles from the FAF or 1 dot low on the GS, flaps just before the FAF/GS intercept. For non FAF approaches, configure before turning inbound, either before turning outbound on the PT or on the last 180 degree turn inbound of the PT (icing more than anything will dictate that). It is ok to leave the props at 2200 or 2500, whatever cruise setting you are using, push the props up with the throttles for a missed, despite what WIND and others say! DO NOT BRIEF HOW YOU WILL FLY THE APPROACH, that should be standard. Brief the approach, navaid, altitudes, course(s), MAP, MSA, runway length, width, lighting (approach lighting specifically) and holding entry. Have that heading for your hold entry figured out well before starting the approach. Above all else, monitor your progress, do not follow a glideslope into the ground just because it is centered. Easy checkpoints are the published glide slope intercept altitude (GSIA), 6 miles = 1800 feet AGL (3 degree slope) and 3 miles = 900 feet AGL. These are not callouts just mental crosschecks. Trust me, get as comfortable as quickly as you can flying approaches by just setting up, briefing and flying. Don't lean on altitude alerters, acronyms, and cheat sheets. __________________ Aircraft without engine(s) prohibited... -KMIA 10-9

March 17th, 2006, 15:03	#10
CRJDriver Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: CVG Posts: 1,101	I agree with Dougie8! Keep it simple. Set-up the approach, then brief (Field Elevation, Type of App., NAV Frequency, Course, Glideslope Int./FAF Alt., Minimums and Missed Appraoch Procedure). Period. Then fly the fickin' plane. __________________

March 18th, 2006, 11:23	#15
eglplt Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: KDAL Posts: 164	[quote=Dugie8]Thats right biatch, KNOW YOUR ROLE! When your airplanes MGTOW equals my fuel load, we can talk! I don't even think my MGTOW evens weighs that much and we have some of the heaviest 400's in the world! How is the La Posada?

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