Laptop

[Bauer]

So i dont know if this has been discussed(actually i have a feeling I already brought it up), but how is the laptop that i have to shell out 900 bux for? ive heard some bad things...do they really give u a joystick and all???

peace, bauer

[CRJDriver]

Don't even get us started on the laptop program....

[JaceTheAce]

Oh man, yes. Don't get us started on the laptop program.

Basically, assuming you will be here for 5 years (average time to finish), you will shell out $4,500 (10 semesters X $450 = $4500) for a $900 laptop that you don't even get to keep.

You get wonderful UND tech support (which you can call Dell for free anyway)...oh but it includes service with a smile!....and a free laptop replacement because you will need to get a new one once you slip on the ice we have starting September and drop the damn thing and have it explode all over the place on the icy ground in front of Odegard Hall...and have people laugh at you.

Joystick? Yes, it's the Microsoft Sidewinder kind you get at Best Buy for $15... plus they give you a "new" version of Microsoft Flight Sim 2002. That's from about a few years ago, but you can do the math. And it's not even the kind with the yaw twist feature. I actually told them no, you can keep the joystick and your DOS green-screen version of MS Flight Sim.

Don't even ask "what software" is on there. Only thing is FlightStar (price unknown, but anywhere from $99-200 depending on the package, plus yearly subscription for updates) and the Warrior systems trainer ($99).

Don't even let UND Aerospace try to defend themselves and say "oh jees well donchya know that it has Notepad, Calculator, Internet Explorer and Microsoft Paint - that's gotta be $1000 in software alooooone right there, donchya knooooow".

Man, I really wish I was involved with the profits UND makes on the laptop program....##### if they had it available I'd invest in UND Laptop program stock!!!!!!!!!!

[JaceTheAce]

Here's your $4500 laptop that you don't even get to keep when the lease is up:



Dell Latitude D505
1.4 Ghz Intel Pentium M Processor
512 MB RAM
40GB Hard-Drive
CD-RW drive
...includes a nice feature that gives you the blue screen of death about once a week...

[airplanerik]

I really don't think they are THAT bad. People say bad things about them--that they are not at all worth the money and so fourth. However, I think it is a pretty nice machine (I hear it is a ton better than the old Gateways at least), and it is REALLY nice to be able to take it in to have anything replaced on the spot. Also, it has common wear and tear covered on it so you don't have to worry about it like it is your own computer that you are going to have forever that you spent tons of money on. No need to protect it from every little scratch/ding. Just toss it in the backpack and go.

Sure...there is no doubt they make money off of the program, but what are you going to do?
Does anybody have any idea what kind we are getting next fall?

[JaceTheAce]

Good point... BUT....Considering that you could've purchased 4 laptops with the amount you pay for the laptop program... I think I'd rather have 4 "disposable" laptops that I can keep.

[airplanerik]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Good point... BUT....Considering that you could've purchased 4 laptops with the amount you pay for the laptop program... I think I'd rather have 4 "disposable" laptops that I can keep.

true...

[NORCAL pilot]

Yeah, I've found them to be good computers, and I certainly don't worry about it breaking. BUT, we do pay the price!!!

[AngelFuree]

What's gay about these laptops is the fact that it only has integrated video. I HATE THAT. It REALLY irritates the living hell out of me. I wish there'd be a video card in there. C'mon...
The hard drive space isn't adequate. But oh wait, yeah I forgot we're not supposed to use it for games/music/video, etc...It should only be used for STUDYING! How gay...

[stuckingfk]

I really didn't mind the laptop program, but I do think it should be an option.

I also know for a fact, they make little (very little) to no money on the laptop program.

Lets break it down:

Wireless everywhere - Not cheap
Full time staff taking care of laptops - Not cheap
Laptops that break down - Not cheap to replace a few hardrives a day
Software - UND actually gets gouged on this
Storage - think of the rooms for all this crap, everything costs money
Electricity - Outlets at every seat. Think of the price on that
Battery Replacement - not cheap, I had a couple batteries myself

The list goes on and on. And everything on that list dips into the $450/semester price tag.

[Philip]

it's ********, take your lumps and move on. it's the least of the bs you'll encounter

it's like bitching about the cost of textbooks, 400 bucks a semester on books is peanuts in the grand scheme of the cost of your education, why stress about it?
and if you want to talk book costs, call me when you get to grad school, 150 bucks with a $10 buy back, woo.

[UAL747400]

The computer isnt really bad at all. Not worth the price, but its not bad. I finagled the thing to run half life 2 very well with damn near full graphics and sound. That game is far more complex than any flight sim game. Could be microsofts fault that their games run like crap, but I've made my laptop kick half life's ass. Granted, I dont have any thing else running at all. Not even windows explorer. lol

I definetly rank it in the middle upper catagory. Maybe not now, but when I got it I would.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

The computer isnt really bad at all. Not worth the price, but its not bad. I finagled the thing to run half life 2 very well with damn near full graphics and sound. That game is far more complex than any flight sim game. Could be microsofts fault that their games run like crap, but I've made my laptop kick half life's ass. Granted, I dont have any thing else running at all. Not even windows explorer. lol

I definetly rank it in the middle upper catagory. Maybe not now, but when I got it I would.

Linux

[TheShocker]

Any insights on the specs that the new laptops will have? I want something thats smaller and thinner. Again the main point should be portability since we carry these things around a lot. It would be nice since I find the Dells we have now a little too bulky.

[UAL747400]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Linux

Man I wish. No, I just go to the processes screen(ctrl-alt-del) and shut everything down except the bare minimum. Then I take out explorer and just go to "run" and type in the execution program name for half life. I dont know what it is, but it seesm like sometimes these computers have good and bad days, like the ram doesnt clear off when I shut down all that stuff or something. On a good day, I can run half life at full graphics with only very minor glitches when Im kicking ass and killing like 20 guys at once, shooting an airship down, and maybe driving a power boat at the same time. lol

[Foxcow]

If people would take care of the laptops, the price would not be that high. Collectively, the students are paying the price for a few asshats that keep coming back for stupid reasons (3 broken screens in 2 weeks). The Dell 505 is a good computer. I agree Lucas, the program should be optional. I haven't had a laptop since May and I see how much of a luxary it was (getting a laptop soon).

[Philip]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

I really didn't mind the laptop program, but I do think it should be an option.

I also know for a fact, they make little (very little) to no money on the laptop program.

Lets break it down:

Wireless everywhere - Not cheap
Full time staff taking care of laptops - Not cheap
Laptops that break down - Not cheap to replace a few hardrives a day
Software - UND actually gets gouged on this
Storage - think of the rooms for all this crap, everything costs money
Electricity - Outlets at every seat. Think of the price on that
Battery Replacement - not cheap, I had a couple batteries myself

The list goes on and on. And everything on that list dips into the $450/semester price tag.

yes and no, I used to work in scientific computing.
the wireless was expensive when new, proxim rangelan is spendy stuff
there is one lady and the rest are students
the laptops are under warranty, wang tech comes and does a lot of the repairs
the software I don't know, flitestar is about 200 bucks and the navdata updares another 100 bucks per update, oddly enough I also used to work at jepp and I don't know how they're configured, jepp isn't in the habit of selling sight licenses
sotrage? that little room off to the right as you go in is it, all the laptops are stored in a big closet behind there, actually scientific computing (they take care of the professors, classroom equip etc..) has more space
most universities have outlets at the desk, hell even the tech in EGF does
again, warranty

[UAL747400]

I actually think the reason they charge so much is a "because they can" sort of thing. Unless they throw that money at other stuff to make those costs "look" cheaper. Flight labs, or other miscellanious stuff?

[Philip]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

I actually think the reason they charge so much is a "because they can" sort of thing. Unless they throw that money at other stuff to make those costs "look" cheaper. Flight labs, or other miscellanious stuff?

it has to go somewhere, spend it or lose it type of thing.
They can't make a profit overall.

[JaceTheAce]

Whether or not they make a profit doesn't matter. What matters is it's way overpriced for the benefit you get out of it...and that is MY opinion.

I think it should be optional. If students feel compelled to spend that much of their parents' money (or bank's money...or grandma's inheritance, etc), then that should be an option for them. For me I think I'd rather spend my hard earned money that I make so I only have to take out low-interest government subsidized loans every semester...on a laptop I can purchase to my own specs.

I've never been in a class that required the use of a laptop, other than the rare occasion of a practice quiz on HTMLez when I took 102...which a nice piece of paper can take care of anyway. In 221 we NEVER used the computer nor did we ever use it in my other Aviation courses. Therefore, the cost outweighs the benefit.

[Benjamin Caldwell]

wait wait wait... so we HAVE to rent a laptop?

[airplanerik]

Yep

[Philip]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Whether or not they make a profit doesn't matter. What matters is it's way overpriced for the benefit you get out of it...and that is MY opinion.

I think it should be optional. If students feel compelled to spend that much of their parents' money (or bank's money...or grandma's inheritance, etc), then that should be an option for them. For me I think I'd rather spend my hard earned money that I make so I only have to take out low-interest government subsidized loans every semester...on a laptop I can purchase to my own specs.

I've never been in a class that required the use of a laptop, other than the rare occasion of a practice quiz on HTMLez when I took 102...which a nice piece of paper can take care of anyway. In 221 we NEVER used the computer nor did we ever use it in my other Aviation courses. Therefore, the cost outweighs the benefit.

charlie robertson uses it extensively, have you taken long range nav yet? All the tests were online, though you could in theory take them from home, lol.

anyway, again, 4k is a drop in the 80k bucket. Take your lumps and don't stress over it.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Caldwell

wait wait wait... so we HAVE to rent a laptop?

That's correct. It's not an option buddy, you are FORCED to sink the $450 down the drain.

UND did NOT specify that in their marketing material now did they? It would've been nice if they told me that it'd have to sink that throw that money away before I spent $2800 in moving costs and made the 2,000 mile treck in a 24 foot Uhaul with car trailer from San Diego to Grand Forks!

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by Philip

charlie robertson uses it extensively, have you taken long range nav yet? All the tests were online, though you could in theory take them from home, lol.

anyway, again, 4k is a drop in the 80k bucket. Take your lumps and don't stress over it.

I could really use $4,500 for flight training! 4 grand is not a drop in the bucket for the money a make unfortunately.